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UK Tree Care - http://www.oak-wood.co.uk/uktc/
You may be right.
However, in the English Courts only the original TPO is
acceptable.
The other areas you cite are examples of 'EVIDENCE' not of a
LEGAL INSTRUMENT.
Therein lies the difference. You can produce whatever
evidence you like and its up to the Courts
to decide whether to accept it or not. What you can't do
is bring proceedings based on
a digital copy of a Legal Instrument. For example, if
you are charged with speeding
based on photographic evidence, the papers are served as
papers, not as digital copies
of papers. The photos are evidence to support the case
against you. This can be challenged
but who does for a £40 fine and a few points on your
licence. However, the time will come
when some person is on 9-points and its worth the time and
effort to make a challenge.
Also, bear in mind that there are safeguards built into the
speeding film handling as part of
an extensive QA process. More than can be said for the
LPA TPO handling situation.
Please remember that PACE '84 applies and this means that a
defendant has only to show
'reasonable doubt' If you can't produce the original
Legal Instrument your lost. In my experience
when there are major cases, and a £20K fine is major, the
Courts tend to err on the side of caution
as any judgement in County / Crown Court is open to appeal and
no Judge likes having
a decision reversed or his/her judgement
questioned.
I know this seems pedantic, but that is what the Law is -
excersises in word games.
Have a good new year
Dealga
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 31, 1999 5:24
PM
Subject: Re: Original TPOs
UK Tree Care - http://www.oak-wood.co.uk/uktc/
I wish to comment on the digital photo points. Digital
'pictures / images' are used in courts all around the
world. Any picture or movie no
matter what it's origin can be altered. Many images for court evidence
have
to be digitally enhanced or
altered. Your digital evidence and it's credence, are a matter of 'your'
personal
credibility in the
eyes of the court. I have
experience of courts and images also, but 'I' have good
credibility
with the courts.
Just for the record; speed trap pics are digital now,
most CCTV evidence has to be cleaned up and
digitally
enhanced, pornography on the net is digital and is
prosecuted, most crime fighting databases are
digital
based as are insurance image databases. Need I continue.
If you are accepted as a reliable witness,
your
evidence has to be accepted also.
As for an LA that would discredit themselves as
described, the will never be trusted in a court again,
and I
would publicly hang them !
Ron ............................
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 6:37
PM
Subject: Original TPOs
UK Tree Care - http://www.oak-wood.co.uk/uktc/
Richard Perrins is in error - serious error.
A digital copy of a TPO is NOT acceptable in Court.
The Original, signed and sealed order is the Legal Document and if this
cannot be produced in Court, then it does not exist. I speak from
first-hand experience. I have acted in cases where prosecutions have
failed because the Original Order could not be produced. A Judge can
only act upon the Legal Document and, as all TPO prosecutions come under the
Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984, then all the defendant has to do is
to shoe 'reasonable doubt' without the origianl legal instrument - that's a
'no brainer' for any competent Solicitor / Barrister.
On the same matter, digital evidence of any sort is not
acceptable and that goes to digital photos as well as it is too easy to
alter or tamper with them. Again I speak from experience where it was
shown that an LPA had 'doctored / altered' a photo for entirely benign
reasons - Case Dismissed!!
Also, Mr Perrins is somewhat patronising in his
approach. I am an experienced consultant and it is not beyond by
abilities to assess and understand 'An Old Order' I can figure it
out. We in the private sector are not stupid, in fact, in many ways we
assist the LPA's to detect serious flaws in their TPO files and
systems. Usually for free as part of a job we are doing for a
client. So please, don't patronise us and we will not publish all the
'Cock-Ups' we find in LPAs TPO files. Boy that would make a good
publication? 'The A to Z of TPO Errors' it would be
as good as any Dennis Norden 'Out Takes' Programme. And if we
identified the LPAs as well - then the s**t would hit the fan but not as
much as if we identified the Officers in post at the time the 'cock up'
occurred - boy would that compartmentalise some people??
Come to think about it, it would make a good regular
feature for TreeLine or the AA NewsLetter - we could style it on the sports
programme Goal of the Month - how about 'TPO Cock-Up' of the Month'
or 'Top Ten TPO Cock Ups' or taken further we
could offer an annual award for the year's most humourous TPO C/U or the
most costly to the LPA Tax Payers
Of course the LPAs or NATO could respond with
'Consultant Cock-Ups' that would also be fun..
Seriously though, the message is, Digital Data is fine for
information only, but in Court, you must have the Original.
Dealga
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