UKTC Archive

Re: one-off insurance?

Subject: Re: one-off insurance?
From: benfuest
Date: Sep 01 2006 16:29:54
So Scott
while we are on the subject of cost of insurance ect versus turn over and all that, perhaps you can clarify something for me. Some of my clients have property in the US and have had lightning protection systems fitted there in trees. I have been told on a couple of occasion that the job in the US cost about $500. I have no experience in the US so can not really comment on this. So lets pretend you have a 120 foot tree single stem, one air terminal type of thing growing in open ground with good soil conditions for the earth works and the team was within say 50 miles of the job. No under ground services to worry about, just the basics. What would you expect it to cost ?
Ben
----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Cullen" <dscottcul@xxxx.net>
To: "UK Tree Care" <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: one-off insurance?


Interesting.

In concept arb policies in the US are similar but the maths differ. Contractors must carry General Liability to cover works and Workers Compensation to cover worker injuries (we have no national health). Both are priced according to a "manual rate" a %age charged against payraool, which is taken as a surrogate for the amount of exposure through hours worked. You pay a deposit premium upfront and are audited at the end of the premium years. More hours, you pay more. Less hours you get a refund or credit. Also based on the number of claims there will be an "experience modifier." Work safely and the manual rate goes down. Have a lot of claims and it goes up.

Manual rate GL on tree works might be say 7-10% of payroll. WC in some states is 20% or even over 50%! So % of revenue depends on the ratio of payroll to revenue... how good you effective margin is, what gets chared to customers as equipment or material in addition to the crew rate and overhead.

The bottom line is that quality, responsible tree works ain't cheap.

When I was in business if you were insured for tree work you were insured. No height limits. Note that all vehicles and special equipment like cranes are insured separately. And consulting must be covered separately by Professional Liability.

SC


----- Original Message ----- From: benfuest
 To: UK Tree Care
 Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 8:06 AM
 Subject: Re: one-off insurance?


 Scott
 I am referring to one crew made up from two climbers and two grounds folk.
My insurance chap is not interested in how much I charge, just how often is he at risk from a claim, I have to tell him how many installations I expect to do in the year. So lets say for arguments sake it is ten and I do eleven.
 Then I must contact them and inform them that I will be exceeding my quota
 and he bills me accordingly. So if I had a really good year and put up
 twenty systems then my policy cost escalates to meet the potential risk to
 the broker. In other words the more I do the more it costs. To answer the
 question of % cost per installation it is around about 10 % . It could of
course go the other way and I have cover for ten installations and I do two, mmm well that is a bit tough as we have to pay our premium in advance so we
 may well be have spent the money and have no work. This is impossible to
 factor in and just has to be worn,  all part of the territory. Also as
apoint of interest I believe that arb policies have a height limit of twenty
 mtr, this can be exceeded but the broker must be informed. As we are
 involved in the lightning protection work then we always exceed this limit
 and have gone to 50 mtr or so many times, the call is always made and
supported with a letter of reply. There is probably a upper and lower limit
 but I have no idea what this may be or if it exists.
 Ben

----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Cullen" <dscottcul@xxxx.net>
 To: "UK Tree Care" <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
 Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 11:16 AM
 Subject: Re: one-off insurance?


 Ben, just for perspective, what gross billing volume per day does that
 cover?  Or how many crews?  It needs to be some %age of production that
 leaves you enough to pay all the other bits and keep just a little profit.
 That's what people need to understand.

 SC
----- Original Message ----- From: benfuest
   To: UK Tree Care
   Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 5:38 AM
   Subject: Re: one-off insurance?


   Hi all
I recall that my insurance broker charges me on a time exposed to risk set up. OK so what I do is a little different in that we have no saws on site and we do not dismantle or fell. All we do is install Lightning protection
   bits and bobs. My policy runs at approx £220 per day exposed to risk.

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