UKTC Archive

Re: one-off insurance?

Subject: Re: one-off insurance?
From: Scott Cullen
Date: Sep 01 2006 17:39:59
Jon, I'm 20+ years out of contracting so I am not at all current.  But that 
sounds slim fro a first class job if the tree is really that tall.  Assuming 
ine air terminal and down conductor and no side branches of the system that's 
still 120 feet of copper plus the run to ground and the rod or plate.

The new standard has reduced the size of the down conductor from what it used 
to be but copper is still copper.

Maybe one of the other US posters will have a more current idea.  I should 
think a good two man crew can easily do that job in  a day.

SC
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: benfuest 
  To: UK Tree Care 
  Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 12:29 PM
  Subject: Re: one-off insurance?


  So Scott
  while we are on the subject of cost of insurance ect versus turn over and 
  all that, perhaps you can clarify something for me. Some of my clients have 
  property in the US and have had lightning protection systems fitted there 
in 
  trees. I have been told on a couple of occasion that the job in the US cost 
  about $500. I have no experience in the US so can not really comment on 
  this. So lets pretend you have a 120 foot tree single stem, one air 
terminal 
  type of thing growing in open ground with good soil conditions for the 
earth 
  works and the team was within say 50 miles of the job. No under ground 
  services to worry about, just the basics. What would you expect it to cost ?
  Ben
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Scott Cullen" <dscottcul@xxxx.net>
  To: "UK Tree Care" <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
  Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 2:15 PM
  Subject: Re: one-off insurance?


  Interesting.

  In concept arb policies in the US are similar but the maths differ. 
  Contractors must carry General Liability to cover works and Workers 
  Compensation to cover worker injuries (we have no national health).  Both 
  are priced according to a "manual rate" a %age charged against payraool, 
  which is taken as a surrogate for the amount of exposure through hours 
  worked.  You pay a deposit premium upfront and are audited at the end of 
the 
  premium years.  More hours, you pay more. Less hours you get a refund or 
  credit.  Also based on the number of claims there will be an "experience 
  modifier."  Work safely and the manual rate goes down.  Have a lot of 
claims 
  and it goes up.

  Manual rate GL on tree works might be say 7-10% of payroll.  WC in some 
  states is 20% or even over 50%! So % of revenue depends on the ratio of 
  payroll to revenue... how good you effective margin is, what gets chared to 
  customers as equipment or material in addition to the crew rate and 
  overhead.

  The bottom line is that quality, responsible tree works ain't cheap.

  When I was in business if you were insured for tree work you were insured. 
  No height limits.  Note that all vehicles and special equipment like cranes 
  are insured separately.  And consulting must be covered separately by 
  Professional Liability.

  SC


    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: benfuest
    To: UK Tree Care
    Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 8:06 AM
    Subject: Re: one-off insurance?


    Scott
    I am referring to one crew made up from two climbers and two grounds folk.
    My insurance chap is not interested in how much I charge, just how often 
  is
    he at risk from a claim, I have to tell him how many installations I 
  expect
    to do in the year. So lets say for arguments sake it is ten and I do 
  eleven.
    Then I must contact them and inform them that I will be exceeding my quota
    and he bills me accordingly. So if I had a really good year and put up
    twenty systems then my policy cost escalates to meet the potential risk to
    the broker. In other words the more I do the more it costs. To answer the
    question of % cost per installation it is around about 10 % . It could of
    course go the other way and I have cover for ten installations and I do 
  two,
    mmm well that is a bit tough as we have to pay our premium in advance so 
  we
    may well be have spent the money and have no work. This is impossible to
    factor in and just has to be worn,  all part of the territory. Also as
    apoint of interest I believe that arb policies have a height limit of 
  twenty
    mtr, this can be exceeded but the broker must be informed. As we are
    involved in the lightning protection work then we always exceed this limit
    and have gone to 50 mtr or so many times, the call is always made and
    supported with a letter of reply. There is probably a upper and lower 
  limit
    but I have no idea what this may be or if it exists.
    Ben

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: "Scott Cullen" <dscottcul@xxxx.net>
    To: "UK Tree Care" <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
    Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 11:16 AM
    Subject: Re: one-off insurance?


    Ben, just for perspective, what gross billing volume per day does that
    cover?  Or how many crews?  It needs to be some %age of production that
    leaves you enough to pay all the other bits and keep just a little profit.
    That's what people need to understand.

    SC
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: benfuest
      To: UK Tree Care
      Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 5:38 AM
      Subject: Re: one-off insurance?


      Hi all
      I recall that my insurance broker charges me on a time exposed to risk 
  set
      up. OK so what I do is a little different in that we have no saws on 
  site
      and we do not dismantle or fell. All we do is install Lightning 
  protection
      bits and bobs. My policy runs at approx £220 per day exposed to risk.

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To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by The Arbor Centre
http://www.arborcentre.co.uk/