UKTC Archive

Re: one-off insurance?

Subject: Re: one-off insurance?
From: benfuest
Date: Sep 01 2006 18:05:15
Good idea Scott,
I am given the impression right or wrong that this is not an uncommon practice in the US. So if there are any chaps across the water with experience in this field, lightning protection that is then I would like very much to here from you. Thanks in advance.
Ben
----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Cullen" <dscottcul@xxxx.net>
To: "UK Tree Care" <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: one-off insurance?


Jon, I'm 20+ years out of contracting so I am not at all current. But that sounds slim fro a first class job if the tree is really that tall. Assuming ine air terminal and down conductor and no side branches of the system that's still 120 feet of copper plus the run to ground and the rod or plate.

The new standard has reduced the size of the down conductor from what it used to be but copper is still copper.

Maybe one of the other US posters will have a more current idea. I should think a good two man crew can easily do that job in a day.

SC
----- Original Message ----- From: benfuest
 To: UK Tree Care
 Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 12:29 PM
 Subject: Re: one-off insurance?


 So Scott
 while we are on the subject of cost of insurance ect versus turn over and
all that, perhaps you can clarify something for me. Some of my clients have property in the US and have had lightning protection systems fitted there in trees. I have been told on a couple of occasion that the job in the US cost
 about $500. I have no experience in the US so can not really comment on
this. So lets pretend you have a 120 foot tree single stem, one air terminal type of thing growing in open ground with good soil conditions for the earth
 works and the team was within say 50 miles of the job. No under ground
services to worry about, just the basics. What would you expect it to cost ?
 Ben
----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Cullen" <dscottcul@xxxx.net>
 To: "UK Tree Care" <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
 Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 2:15 PM
 Subject: Re: one-off insurance?


 Interesting.

 In concept arb policies in the US are similar but the maths differ.
 Contractors must carry General Liability to cover works and Workers
 Compensation to cover worker injuries (we have no national health).  Both
 are priced according to a "manual rate" a %age charged against payraool,
 which is taken as a surrogate for the amount of exposure through hours
worked. You pay a deposit premium upfront and are audited at the end of the
 premium years.  More hours, you pay more. Less hours you get a refund or
 credit.  Also based on the number of claims there will be an "experience
modifier." Work safely and the manual rate goes down. Have a lot of claims
 and it goes up.

 Manual rate GL on tree works might be say 7-10% of payroll.  WC in some
 states is 20% or even over 50%! So % of revenue depends on the ratio of
payroll to revenue... how good you effective margin is, what gets chared to
 customers as equipment or material in addition to the crew rate and
 overhead.

 The bottom line is that quality, responsible tree works ain't cheap.

 When I was in business if you were insured for tree work you were insured.
No height limits. Note that all vehicles and special equipment like cranes
 are insured separately.  And consulting must be covered separately by
 Professional Liability.

 SC


----- Original Message ----- From: benfuest
   To: UK Tree Care
   Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 8:06 AM
   Subject: Re: one-off insurance?


   Scott
I am referring to one crew made up from two climbers and two grounds folk.
   My insurance chap is not interested in how much I charge, just how often
 is
   he at risk from a claim, I have to tell him how many installations I
 expect
   to do in the year. So lets say for arguments sake it is ten and I do
 eleven.
Then I must contact them and inform them that I will be exceeding my quota
   and he bills me accordingly. So if I had a really good year and put up
twenty systems then my policy cost escalates to meet the potential risk to the broker. In other words the more I do the more it costs. To answer the question of % cost per installation it is around about 10 % . It could of
   course go the other way and I have cover for ten installations and I do
 two,
   mmm well that is a bit tough as we have to pay our premium in advance so
 we
   may well be have spent the money and have no work. This is impossible to
   factor in and just has to be worn,  all part of the territory. Also as
   apoint of interest I believe that arb policies have a height limit of
 twenty
   mtr, this can be exceeded but the broker must be informed. As we are
involved in the lightning protection work then we always exceed this limit
   and have gone to 50 mtr or so many times, the call is always made and
   supported with a letter of reply. There is probably a upper and lower
 limit
   but I have no idea what this may be or if it exists.
   Ben

----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Cullen" <dscottcul@xxxx.net>
   To: "UK Tree Care" <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
   Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 11:16 AM
   Subject: Re: one-off insurance?


   Ben, just for perspective, what gross billing volume per day does that
   cover?  Or how many crews?  It needs to be some %age of production that
leaves you enough to pay all the other bits and keep just a little profit.
   That's what people need to understand.

   SC
----- Original Message ----- From: benfuest
     To: UK Tree Care
     Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 5:38 AM
     Subject: Re: one-off insurance?


     Hi all
     I recall that my insurance broker charges me on a time exposed to risk
 set
     up. OK so what I do is a little different in that we have no saws on
 site
     and we do not dismantle or fell. All we do is install Lightning
 protection
     bits and bobs. My policy runs at approx £220 per day exposed to risk.

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 http://www.arborcentre.co.uk/



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 http://www.arborcentre.co.uk/



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