UKTC Archive

Re: one-off insurance?

Subject: Re: one-off insurance?
From: Scott Cullen
Date: Sep 03 2006 16:55:56
Much of what you say is true, or can be true.  That insurance costs are the 
problem is clearly not true.

The problem is that arbs aren't businessmen.  Insertions follow.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: TreeSpecialists@xxxx.com 
  To: UK Tree Care 
  Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 12:28 PM
  Subject: Re: one-off insurance?



  It is unfortunately more serious than this.
  Insurance makes one-off jobs impossible but also makes part time working  
  uneconomic.
   
  Climbing, or even just felling every day is back-breaking work. Not good  
for 
  the musculoskeletal body. 

  SC:  Can be.  I was taught to climb by men who were in their '50s, still 
climbing everyday.  HAd been climbing since they were 18 - with odd bits out 
fro the depression and the war.  Yes it was and is hard work.  But if it is 
back-breaking, body-breaking it's from not working smart.  (Acccidents of 
course are another issue, a real issue.)

  I looked into combining it with a more gentle  
  occupation, doing several days of each every week. After all athletes recon 
on  48 
  hrs to for the body to recover after an event and to prevent injury.  But 
  part time working was uneconomic - because of the insurance  costs.

  SC. What is uneconomic is not working smart.  Pricing jobs too thin so they 
require body-breaking work.  I am not saying thjis is easy work.  I climbed 
everyday for years, so I'm not making this up.  Any business should be 
charging enough to cover it's costs, whatever they are and make a profit.  
And cover proper equipments including safety and protective equipment.
   
  So we have a workforce who have little option but to work 5-6 days a week  
in 
  a physically very demanding job where one slip, or loss of concentration 
can  
  be fatal.  This is not very sensible.

  SC. And that's why we have insurance, becuase of the risk.  And the risks 
are real.  How many trades have the option of woring 3-4 days and then taking 
a break?  The point is they should be 5-6 safe, well paid days.
   
  In addition; does staying up late every night to do our PUWER,  LOLER, risk 
  assessments, method statements, and tax accounts will make the job  safer? 
  Perhaps lack of sleep combined with physical exhaustion can  help our 
  concentration in a dangerous job?

  SC. And a business should be set up to be profitable in a normal work week. 
 All that admin time and training time are not free to the business owner and 
should not be free to the consumer.  It's called overhead and it too should 
be built in.  So if you work nights doing it it should be extra income, ir 
what you'd be paying an admin person.
  SC. And risk assessments?  Are those billable consultaions?  So do those on 
the day off you want from climbing.

  SC. I have been a small business owner and I know all about the challenges 
in making this happen.  And in start up years you will be working 80 hour 
weeks, burning the candle at both ends.  But to get it to chnage you have to 
start to think like a business person and plan to run a real business not  a 
bodybreaking indenture to yourself.

  SC.  SOmetimes the hardest decison is to not be self-employed, but to be a 
well paid employee.  Think about it.  Instead of all that capital tied up in 
trucks and chippers and saws, all wanting maintenance and replacemnt, put the 
money in the bank.  Work for a bigger business.  MAybe you'd do just as well.

  SC:  The "you" here is of course the generic arb, whomever is reading the 
list.

  SC:  The bottom line is that insurance costs are what they are they are not 
the culprit indenturing te arb.  

  SC

   
  Andrew
   
  In a message dated 02/09/2006 08:34:33 GMT Daylight Time,  
  rej.davidson@xxxxxxx.net writes:

  A  supporter...........! There is a god.

  So do insurers listen to UKTC? Is  there a market for such a policy? If not,
  why  not?

  rob




  -----Original Message-----
  From:  TreeSpecialists@xxxx.com [mailto:TreeSpecialists@xxxx.com] 
  Sent: 01  September 2006 21:13
  To: UK Tree Care
  Subject: Re: one-off  insurance?


  Just imagine.....there are thousands of qualified and  well experienced arbs

  out there who work every week for reputable tree  care firms. The 
opportunity

  does arise to do the occasional private  job, to boost the kids college 
  fund...or  just to pay the rent this  month.

  one off insurance would fit the bill very nicely...
  The  temptation to "join the pikey brigade" is more likely when one off   
  insurance is not available.

  So the question remains....does anyone  do one-off insurance or are we all  
  condemned to the choose between  poverty or pikeyhood.

  Andrew


  In a message dated 01/09/2006  09:37:59 GMT Daylight Time,  
  rej.davidson@xxxxxxx.net  writes:

  Jim,  imagine............... a mature Arb student, who has  completed the
  relevant  CS units and is competent and fairly  experienced, but cannot yet
  afford a  rolling insurance premium when  all he is doing is trying to earn
  an
  extra  bit of cash to get him  through college. All he wants to do is
  provide
  whatever practical  service he can (i.e fell the odd dead tree),  safely and
  backed by an  insurance policy for the job. Consultancy is not an  issue
  until
  he  is professionally qualified. Quite rightly and quite  responsibly he  is
  not prepared to join the 'Pikey' brigade.
  I'll let him  know  your view though.
  regards
  rd






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