UKTC Archive

RE: occupiers liability

Subject: RE: occupiers liability
From: Howe, Ron
Date: Nov 24 2008 12:51:44
Well said Jim ...

Ron Howe
Planning Tree Officer
Mole Valley District Council
Pippbrook
Dorking
RH4 1SJ
Direct Tel. 01306 XXX XXX


-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Quaife [mailto:jq@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk] 
Sent: Mon, 24 November 2008 09:56
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: RE: occupiers liability

When the grand fromage of RoSPA said recently that H&S has gone too far and 
has become an embarrassment in many instances, I for one am heartened.
We nearly lost the concept of reasonableness in English law when it was 
"discussed" in Europe about 5 or 6 years ago (maybe longer) and I don't think 
that very many people realised that it was at risk, or the consequences of 
its absence!  Perhaps I should also be heartened that reasonableness 
prevailed in that instance.

What it boils down to is (or should be) common sense.  In actual fact courts 
are reasonable and it is only the outrageous cases that make the press.  If 
you take reasonable precautions a court is unlikely to find that you have 
been irresponsible.

We have a culture of blame and if someone trips over a paving slab on the 
pavement, they are wondering which car they can buy before they've hit the 
ground.

We had a claim at a school where a lady fell over a kerb.  The County advice 
was to report it to them and they would pay up - I told the headteacher to 
keep it within the school and we wrote a letter of commiseration but not 
accepting liability (there was a bit more to it that that of course, but the 
whole story is lengthy).

We heard no more.

Whilst I have to offer responsible advice to clients on this sort of thing, I 
steadfastly refuse to be intimidated by bureaucratic zealots, and will 
continue to wave the flag of reasonableness.

With LPAs and clients alike it can boil down to courage and in the case of 
Kew for instance, the risk parameters are decided by their solicitor.  Tony 
mentioned an instance where £3K was paid to a lady hit by a twig that bent 
her glasses!

I really do think that arbs can bring an objective perspective to all this, 
but that also takes courage.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: Howe, Ron [mailto:Ron.Howe@xxxxxxxxxxx.gov.uk]
Sent: 24 November 2008 09:37
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: RE: occupiers liability

Paul,

I believe the short answer is, that a trespass warning sign is not enough. 
Your client, as you know, has a duty of care to ensure that anyone who might 
enter their land, legally or not, does not get injured.
If they do, then they could take your client to court. The argument would be 
that although they were warned not to trespass, there were no warnings about 
the dangers. You must also cater for people that might not be able to read 
the signs for whatever reason you can think of ...
the young and careless, old and careless, long sighted, learning disabled, 
didn't enter by a sign etc. The best option might be to make the land 
inaccessible. Nevertheless, your client would still be liable if someone 
broke in and became injured. So a combination of preventing access and 
remedial works would be a reasonable combination in conjunction with signs 
warning of and at any hazardous structures.

Ron.


Ron Howe
Planning Tree Officer
Mole Valley District Council
Pippbrook
Dorking
RH4 1SJ
Direct Tel. 01306 XXX XXX


-----Original Message-----
From: paul hughes [mailto:paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk]
Sent: Sat, 22 November 2008 13:50
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: occupiers liability

My client has a woodland with mature trees that are in decline with ganoderma 
, HF etc present.
Several people enter the wood uninvited to exercise their dogs bowels (and 
legs) but there are clear warnings about trespass in place.
As the estate is an old peoples home with charitable status (including the 
woodland) there is little money in the pot for the felling 'necessary'.  I 
would like to be able to leave those trees deeper into the wood to a more 
natural decline dealing with the iffy ones by the drive and nearby bridle way.
Is a sign about trespass and stating the condition of the trees with a 
disclaimer enough to enable us to leave the deeper wood to its own devices? 
Or are we still culpable if a trespasser gets squashed?

thanks
Paul


--
The UK Tree Care mailing list
To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by The Arbor Centre http://www.arborcentre.co.uk/

______________________________________________________________________

Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. Save paper.

Visit http://www.molevalley.gov.uk for information about Council services, 
online payments and planning information.

This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use 
of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you are not the 
intended recipient, the E-mail and any files have been transmitted to you in 
error and any copying, distribution or other use of the information contained 
in them is strictly prohibited.

The Council computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on 
them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other 
lawful purposes.




--
The UK Tree Care mailing list
To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by The Arbor Centre http://www.arborcentre.co.uk/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Email the way you want it - scanned for viruses and spam by emailsystems

If you believe this email is spam, please forward to spam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.com




--
The UK Tree Care mailing list
To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by The Arbor Centre http://www.arborcentre.co.uk/

______________________________________________________________________

Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. Save paper.

Visit http://www.molevalley.gov.uk for information about Council services, 
online payments and planning information.

This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use 
of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you are not the 
intended recipient, the E-mail and any files have been transmitted to you in 
error and any copying, distribution or other use of the information contained 
in them is strictly prohibited.

The Council computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on 
them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other 
lawful purposes.




-- 
The UK Tree Care mailing list
To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by The Arbor Centre
http://www.arborcentre.co.uk/