UKTC Archive

RE: Throw away your resistographs

Subject: RE: Throw away your resistographs
From: Mike Ellison
Date: Dec 12 2008 23:26:50
Hi Sharon

I think that I have already picked up three instances in this thread where 
the word 'frass' (insect faeces) has been used to describe woody debris.  It 
could inadvertently slip into common mis-usage.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Sharon Hosegood [mailto:sharon.m.hosegood1@xxxxxxxxxxxx.com] 
Sent: 12 December 2008 20:50
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: RE: Throw away your resistographs

Hello Rupert
 
didn't want you to wait too long!
 
Being a nerd, I remembered an article in Arb Journal Volume 28 pate 165 by 
Kersten and Schwarze.  They compared a IML Resistograph with an increment 
borer on London Plane and Ash.   This experiment found  that the presence of  
Inonotus hispidus was greater in the tree wounded by the resistograph than 
the borer.  This does not mean that one is less harmful than the other as 
this data relates to previously infected trees. The increment borer dries out 
the hole, whilst the increment borer retains frass in the hole, thus 
providing better conditions for the outgrowth of fungus from preexisting 
decay columns. Don't jump to hasty conclusions, merely reminding you that it 
is a comprehensive paper.
 
 
Still used it the other day. 
 
Head above parapet waiting for it to be chopped off
 
have a good weekend 
 
Sharon Hosegood
 


--- On Fri, 12/12/08, Rupert Brasier <Rupert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk> wrote:

From: Rupert Brasier <Rupert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Throw away your resistographs
To: "UK Tree Care" <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Date: Friday, 12 December, 2008, 1:26 PM

Hi,

The larger the opening, the more it dries out making it less inviting to a 
pathogen. The smaller hole, full of frass, as with a microdrill, remains a 
moist dark environment that is more inviting. This tied in with your comment 
about the tree not being able to identify that it's under attack due to a 
lack of oxygen could be an interesting mix.

Head above the parapet. Waiting.

Rupert


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-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Quaife [mailto:jq@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk]
Sent: 12 December 2008 13:10
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: RE: Throw away your resistographs

Francis Schwarze mentioned a few years ago that when he started to examine 
the effects of drilling on trees, he discovered that microdrill holes filled 
with frass don't have sufficient oxygen content for the tree to register it 
as a wound.  He showed slides of cross-sections showing the extensive spread 
of fungal infection.  The Pressler borer made a large enough hole for the 
tree to react to the wound and compartmentalise it.  The slides showed the 
infection spread to be very significantly less!
We have a Resistograph but use it very sparingly and usually to confirm our 
worst fears.
Where we discover that there is nothing much to worry about, yes we probably 
have breached a CODIT barrier, but if the tree is vigorous there is no reason 
to suppose that it won't cope, or at any rate won't cause lasting harm.
We have a P borer as well and use that even less, although very useful for 
evidence as the wood is actually there for examination.
This is all a very grey area and one has to balance the claims of the 
manufacturers of the various gadgets with one's own judgement.
Somewhere in the small print they all say (or allude to) the fact that decay 
detection contraptions should only be used to confirm VTA.
Jim


-----Original Message-----
From: Sean Davies [mailto:sdavies@xxxxxxxxxx.gov.uk]
Sent: 12 December 2008 12:24
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: RE: Throw away your resistographs

Back in the old days my boss used to use a large 1, inch drill bit to check 
for decay, Swiss cheesed a few trees, moving on from that I still now a few 
who take core samples leaving a 5mm hole so a 1mm hole on a tree which is 
already though to have decay and be in an unsound condition don't seem that 
bad, but still would could always look at pounding in a load of nail and then 
testing.  Any testing beyond visual causes damage, the exercise is in 
minimising it and only using when absolutely necessary. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Durkan, Paul [mailto:Paul.Durkan@xxxxxxxxxxxx.gov.uk]
Sent: 12 December 2008 12:06
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: Throw away your resistographs

Extract from a tree report:
"0 - 10cm:- sound wood, with increasing resistance;
10cm: greatly increased resistance;
10 - 40cm: decayed wood, with low resistance"
Yes, at 10cm you drilled through wall 4 of the CODIT model, the chemically 
and structurally altered (chemically resistant and strengthened) wood, that 
was restricting the fungus to the "heartwood." Now the fungus might escape 
into the sound and biologically active wood laid down in the years after 
injury, possibly even be transported around the tree by the vascular system.
 
Suppose this was a TPO tree,  in reasonable health and dealing with the 
decay, might this constitute "wilfull damage"?
 
The German mycologist chappie speaking at last year's TEP seminar (November 
07), was adamant that we must strive to not damage intact parts of trees with 
such probes; that we must use other methods to assess decay.
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