UKTC Archive

RE: t/R

Subject: RE: t/R
From: Addison, Gilbert
Date: May 19 2009 07:39:11
Your light hearted reference to town vs country John brings me to remind you 
that while the cable companies were scarfing up a few thousand street trees, 
agriculture was ploughing/poisoning the roots of millions of hedgerow trees 
but did any of you urbanites notice that? 


Gilbert Addison | Tree and Countryside Officer |Breckland Council
Office: 01362 XXXXXX Fax: 01362 XXXXXX 
DDI:   01362 XXXXXX | Mobile: na
Elizabeth House, Walpole Loke, Dereham NR19 1EE

gilbert.addison@xxxxxxxxxx.gov.uk |www.breckland.gov.uk

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Flannigan [mailto:jdflannigan@xxxx.com] 
Sent: 19 May 2009 07:56
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: RE: t/R

Marcus said << At the same time it is also about time we had some proper 
support structures so that technology has some meaning>>

I have a great idea - what about a Tree Commission!

That way instead of having only one Arborist in govt with absolutely no 
budget the 90% of urbanites in the UK could tap into and divert the £80 
million budget and almost 600 staff that exist to support woodlands in rural 
areas.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: Marcus Bellett-Travers [mailto:marcus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk]
Sent: 18 May 2009 22:40
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: Re: t/R

Could not agree more the tree is a biological system hot wired into its 
environment, 20 years of plant physiology have told me that physiology is 
king but it responds to the environment. Auxins etc is a bit out of date 
though, more likely a direct response mediated by calcium channels, this may

well be a direct presure effect exerting a thermodynamic potential, hence one 
of the reasons why some trees respond and others don't. The infective process 
may stimulate this but if a barrier zone is created this probably no

longer happens, (reaction zones though, who knows). There may well be gene 
expression involved in the pressure response but this is a bit uncertain, 
some friends of mine are looking at this in cereals at the moment and once 
they have the genes isolated we might have a look in trees. I started my life 
as a scientist/expert (loose sence of the term), some of what is practiced 
there is still down to personal experience and knowledge but there

has been a hell of a lot of technolgy put into it, time to come out of the 
dark ages. At the same time it is also about time we had some proper support

structures so that technology has some meaning rather than sledge hammers to

crack nuts. I see a great deal of bickering and opinion about this and that,

when in actual fact  many of the subjects are just two views through opposite 
sides of the same window.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hinsley" <markhinsley@xxxxxxxxxxx.info>
To: "UK Tree Care" <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:15 PM
Subject: RE: t/R


I think you have hit the nail on the head Luke. In the 35 years that I have
been in Arboriculture people have been constantly coming up with 'rules of
thumb' to be applied to trees on a 'one size fits all' basis in all kinds of
situations and conditions. Some of them have an origin in fact and some are
little more than witch craft! If these various rules are simply used as a
starting point from which you then apply knowledge, experience and common
sense, then they can be helpful, if they are treated as solid fact and
applied rigidly; they can be disastrous. Like you say - look at the tree as
a whole, apply your knowledge of the species and the site conditions and
come to a reasoned conclusion - then have the courage to stand by it.

Mark Hinsley

-----Original Message-----
From: Luke Steer [mailto:luketreescapes@xxxxxxxxxxx.com]
Sent: 17 May 2009 13:34
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: Re: t/R

Well said Bill,
The axiom of uniform stress indicates that healthy trees can cope. I think
its to do with Auxins and other plant growth regulators promoting the growth
of weakened areas and the allocation of resources to them. According to
David Lonsdale (1999) and others such as Boddy and Raynor (1983) few decay
fungi can actually affect healthy sapwood. Decay fungi therefore increase
the volume of wood they have colonised when the sapwood becomes
dysfunctional, possibly due to drought, water-logging or other tree
stressing factors. I think we have to look at the tree as a whole not just
individual defects.

Regards

Luke




________________________________
From: "Andersonarb@xxxx.com" <Andersonarb@xxxx.com>
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Sent: Sunday, 17 May, 2009 1:05:09 PM
Subject: Re: t/R


In a message dated 16/05/2009 09:54:12 GMT Standard Time,
marcus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk writes:

Hopefully this is clear
to everyone. The Kinetic energy is a Moment made up of forces applied to
the
tree mulitplied by the length of the lever arm, there will be some kind of
relation to stem legth (hence the slenderness thing) . These could be
either
static forces under gravity or dynamic forces under, for example, wind
load.



If we are called upon to look at a tree that is already hollow, even if it
is in excess of the t/R>3, then it is reasonable to observe that the tree
has so far managed to remain standing (without any significant work to
reduce wind resistance or lever-arm?) So why should that not continue to be
the
case? If you seem to be observing the continuing active decay of the trunk,
while the lever arm or wind resistance is continuing to increase but while
the trunk diameter is not continuing to increase comparably then maybe we
have problems. Reducing the lever arm or sail area might be an option but
you need to remember that such work might also reduce the photosynthetic
capacity so as to reduce the chances of the trunk diameter increasing.

There is a danger that we all look at hollow trees with the preconception
that they will continue to get more hollow; obviously some trees manage to
compartmentalise the decay to the point where it has effectively stopped.

Obviously trees showing a lack of vigour or dying back are less likely to
manage to compartmentalsie the decay-processes but equally the wind
resistance and lever arm is unlikely to be increasing.

All in all Tom's problem requires (it seems to me) that he assesses risk,
appraises amenity value, looks at veteran tree issues, looks at the owner's

resources and then comes to a conclusion.

Bill.


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______________________________________________________________________
Arboricultural Software MAY Sale

ArborCAD, ArborShadow and ArborTrail are currently on special offer.
Try before you buy by simply downloading the programs and trying out in the
demonstration mode.

For more info, downloads, manuals etc, visit www.chrisskellern.co.uk
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______________________________________________________________________
Arboricultural Software MAY Sale

ArborCAD, ArborShadow and ArborTrail are currently on special offer.
Try before you buy by simply downloading the programs and trying out in the
demonstration mode.

For more info, downloads, manuals etc, visit www.chrisskellern.co.uk
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______________________________________________________________________
Arboricultural Software MAY Sale

ArborCAD, ArborShadow and ArborTrail are currently on special offer.
Try before you buy by simply downloading the programs and trying out in the
demonstration mode.

For more info, downloads, manuals etc, visit www.chrisskellern.co.uk
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