UKTC Archive

RE: TPO's and Helliwell

Subject: RE: TPO's and Helliwell
From: A . j Clark
Date: Jun 27 2009 10:01:55
______________________________________________________________________
*****************Quantified Tree Risk Assesment Training***************
   
  Dublin: QTRA Training 29 June, Practitioners Guide to VTA 30 June    
  Lyme Park, Cheshire: QTRA 8 July, Practitioners Guide to VTA 9 July  
  Exeter: QTRA 14 July, Practitioners Guide to VTA 15 July             
  Antrim: QTRA Training 20 July, Practitioners Guide to VTA 21 July    
  Merrist Wood: QTRA 22/23 Sept,Practitioners Guide to VTA 24 Sept
______________________________________________________________________


All, 

 

What suprises me by this thread, is that so far i see no mention of CAVAT!

 

Considering the support that this method has had, and its succesfull use in 
conjunction with the JMP as the main system recognised by the UK insurers 
when dealing with tree valuation in relation to subsidance mitigation, I 
would have thought it would have at least got a mention.

 

Regards


Andy 


Andy Clark





 
From: jdflannigan@xxxx.com
To: uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info
Subject: RE: TPO's and Helliwell
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 10:18:15 +0100

______________________________________________________________________
*****************Quantified Tree Risk Assesment Training***************

Dublin: QTRA Training 29 June, Practitioners Guide to VTA 30 June 
Lyme Park, Cheshire: QTRA 8 July, Practitioners Guide to VTA 9 July 
Exeter: QTRA 14 July, Practitioners Guide to VTA 15 July 
Antrim: QTRA Training 20 July, Practitioners Guide to VTA 21 July 
Merrist Wood: QTRA 22/23 Sept,Practitioners Guide to VTA 24 Sept
______________________________________________________________________

I suppose Bill that the issue is around what you define as 'amenity' and my
view is that amenity is as much as about enjoying a tree because it's a bird
roost than it is about its looks. The whole ecosystem services argument is a
contemporary approach to amenity and is something that we need to consider
more in all our decisions.

That said, the most important thing that people rate about trees is that
they are 'pleasing to the eye' and generally secondly that they enhance
where they are. And this does not seem to matter what the tree looks like
compared to other trees. With this being the case I think that we ought to
look carefully at the need to measure visual amenity at all.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: andersonarb@xxxx.com [mailto:andersonarb@xxxx.com] 
Sent: 27 June 2009 09:59
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: Re: TPO's and Helliwell

______________________________________________________________________
*****************Quantified Tree Risk Assesment Training***************

Dublin: QTRA Training 29 June, Practitioners Guide to VTA 30 June 
Lyme Park, Cheshire: QTRA 8 July, Practitioners Guide to VTA 9 July 
Exeter: QTRA 14 July, Practitioners Guide to VTA 15 July 
Antrim: QTRA Training 20 July, Practitioners Guide to VTA 21 July 
Merrist Wood: QTRA 22/23 Sept,Practitioners Guide to VTA 24 Sept
______________________________________________________________________






I agree with Glyn 

Don't forget that the Helliwell system is purely about measuring visual
amenity and evaluating a tree for a TPO needs to be more than that. 

John

I almost disagree with both
of you. Helliwell is about the visual but currently that is what TPOs
are mainly about.... If a tree deserves protection because of great
rarity then you should be using some other tool of protection. If a
tree deserves protection because it's a habitat for a bird, mammal,
fungus?or briophyte, then you need to be looking for something like a
SSSI.



To turn to the question of what Helliwell Value you should be attaining
before serving a TPO then I'd say that you should be looking for a
minimum value somewhere in the mid range of everything. So under the
latest incarnation (2008)
a score of 64 hits the mark. If you think a tree should be actually a bit
more than just OK then 128 is more like it. Bear in mind the maximum
Helliwell score is 4,096 (if my arithmetic is correct) but the increase in
value is is exponential.



?Whether we like it or not the TPO system is not supposed to protect all
trees. It would be simpler if it did, then we wouldn't need any sort of TPO
and life for TOs would be dead easy, except for the fact that every routine
bit of hedge reduction or Apple tree pruning would mean the TO was dealing
with another minor application that generated a mountain of paperwork.

As for a TEMPO assessment, it's fine but any reasonable live tree scores at
least 6 so it's actually difficult to find a tree that doesn't deserve
protection and I'm not sure this helps you much. 

Bill.





-----Original Message-----

From: John Flannigan <jdflannigan@xxxx.com>

To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>

Sent: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 18:43

Subject: RE: TPO's and Helliwell







______________________________________________________________________
*****************Quantified Tree Risk Assesment Training***************

Dublin: QTRA Training 29 June, Practitioners Guide to VTA 30 June 
Lyme Park, Cheshire: QTRA 8 July, Practitioners Guide to VTA 9 July 
Exeter: QTRA 14 July, Practitioners Guide to VTA 15 July 
Antrim: QTRA Training 20 July, Practitioners Guide to VTA 21 July 
Merrist Wood: QTRA 22/23 Sept,Practitioners Guide to VTA 24 Sept
______________________________________________________________________

I agree with Glyn 

Don't forget that the Helliwell system is purely about measuring visual
amenity and evaluating a tree for a TPO needs to be more than that. 

John

-----Original Message-----
From: Glyn Thomas [mailto:glyn.thomas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk] 
Sent: 26 June 2009 15:34
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: RE: TPO's and Helliwell

______________________________________________________________________
*****************Quantified Tree Risk Assesment Training***************

Dublin: QTRA Training 29 June, Practitioners Guide to VTA 30 June 
Lyme Park, Cheshire: QTRA 8 July, Practitioners Guide to VTA 9 July 
Exeter: QTRA 14 July, Practitioners Guide to VTA 15 July 
Antrim: QTRA Training 20 July, Practitioners Guide to VTA 21 July 
Merrist Wood: QTRA 22/23 Sept,Practitioners Guide to VTA 24 Sept
______________________________________________________________________

<<I've just done a quick search and think that a benchmark score of
around 100 is required to argue a case more favourably.>>

Lisa. I disagree. IMO Helliwell shouldn't be used in that way. It's
not what the system was designed for.

Glyn




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