UKTC Archive

RE: Ganoderma applanatum/australe on n.maple - implications

Subject: RE: Ganoderma applanatum/australe on n.maple - implications
From: antony croft
Date: Dec 29 2011 19:10:33

Luke, thanks for those, haven't looked yet but will in a second.
I wasn't implying that no one knew of the co evolutions, only that fistulina 
is a very specialised one amoung them, a wonderful and complex little fungi, 
all IMO of course, just saying to avoid confusion.
I totally understand the need for evidence, and not evidence of the 
anecdotal, pictorial or otherwise form, I am no expert nor will i ever claim 
to be "great" i just love this subject and want to talk with anyone who has 
an interest in such things and can help me discover the truth in the many 
conflicts and missing informations that I find in my limited capacity at this 
current time. Everyone of these papers/links you guys send me is a big part 
of that journey, and I am so grateful for it.
as for ripped to shreds, its a personal thing, i take it personal, as i do 
everything because everything is personal to me, i don't separate my work 
from my life, as sad as it may seem for i gave up a lot of normal life in 
order to be absorbed and selfish in this pursuit. I also have a great sense 
of insecurity regarding my ability which is totally ridiculous because I know 
i am a great arb, but criticism is still my kryptonite! Actually that's not 
strictly true, its not criticality but condescension, I rise to that 
disproportional! cant help it, its a growing pain thing long story! lol no 
ones perfect huh!
I would love to do the work i need to do, it is like a great pain in me, that 
i do not have the resources nor tools to do what i am truly capable of, and 
one day i may risk all and build my own mini lab but for now I'm stuck 
observing and taking photos and discussing with all who will discuss.
I am all too aware of the desperate undertone too, that comes from the fact I 
have no means to win THE job, and 40 next year means i have to give serious 
considerations to alternative occupations, that fills me with dread, its a 
dark shadow looming, i mean what does one do as an unqualified climber when 
its time to hang up the harness at least from a full on 5-8 hrs a day5-7 days 
a week climbing pressure?
I am only worth my salary because of my productivity, as a climber im 
priceless, anything else, well im up gainst a wall.
not for a lack of trying either, Ive not even made it to interview a good few 
times!
I cant see myself stacking shelves or serving mc donalds!

hint hint
One of you lot has to be looking for a trainee consultant or surveyor? Oh 
come on! lol failing that i make the best cup of tea!
tony


From: luketreescapes@xxxxxxxxxxx.com
To: uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info
Subject: RE: Ganoderma applanatum/australe on n.maple - implications
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 17:40:12 +0000

Tony,
No one wants to rip anyone else to shreds.  Some of what you and Gerrit are 
suggesting is at variance from what we have learnt from other great 
myco-arborists. Therefore we require evidence, not just circumstantial or 
anecdotal observations.  

Also no one is doubting that trees and fungi have co-evolved since the 
beginning of time.  That's why trees have evolved defence mechanisms and 
fungi have evolved their preferred niches - the ecological arms race.  I 
suggest you and Gerrit read both Boddy and Rayner (1983) 
(http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-8137.1996.tb01842.x/abstract)
 
and Pearce (1995) 
(http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-8137.1996.tb01842.x/abstract).

Both are excellent papers on the relationships between decay fungi and 
living trees but I'm sure that there is a lot more to learn.  I suggest 
that these describe the building blocks that you may potentially modify for 
certain host - fungus relationships.  Let's try not to throw the baby out 
with the bath water. 

Pearce also wrote a paper on long lived free radicals associated with 
reaction zones - fascinating stuff. 

Regards

Luke 

-----Original Message-----
From: antony croft [mailto:hamadryad@xxxxxxxx.co.uk] 
Sent: 29 December 2011 17:02
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: RE: Ganoderma applanatum/australe on n.maple - implications


Gerrit,
VS - 2) Not evidence on a microscopical level in a living tree (yet), but 
assuming G. australe can, because of its (partially sterile) panic fruiting 
just before or shortly after the tree dies and not being able to produce 
(completely) fertile brackets from dead wood alone.>>

Your views, experience and guidance have been invaluable to me, you crossed 
so many T's, dotted so many I's for me, you made sense of all my own 
thoughts and findings, I have 100% faith. How might we go about proving 
this to a very discerning crowd? We have some very septic, i mean sceptic 
folk here. ha ha 

and all-

We appear to have two subjects going on now, one (F. hepatica) deserves a 
separate thread, I will start that with an album of photos.
As for Ganoderma australe, there are few things in life that I am this 
confidant of, agreed that these theories and observations require rigorous 
testing, but as newton said, all the greatest discoveries begun with a bold 
guess.
and bold is me all over! ha ha (it hides my insecurities)
The reading of sporocarp production is every bit as valid as the reading of 
the body language of trees, combined they tell more about the life of the 
tree than is currently appreciated, both skills require a lot of time and 
effort to learn, dont be dismissive of those skills. You Mr evans are the 
reason i went and had a sulk, for patronising me with the term "prophecy" 
in direct relation to my poor choice of words, I wont run away again.
I am gambling here, with my reputation, for if I am wrong I have no doubt i 
will be ripped to shreds by many of you, as i am now but more so in 5 to 10 
years, but I am willing to accept the odds that are so stacked in favour of 
my understanding of many fungi/tree interactions.
why would anyone be so confidant in the face of overwhelming opposition, 
when they are fighting so hard to be taken seriously in their field, and 
risking the future of the very thing one is fighting tooth and nail for? i 
am 40 next year and still a humble climber, so im putting my money on the 
table.
I will predict two things, that Ganoderma australe will be found to be one 
of the most capable and advanced of the basidiomycetes, and that Fistulina 
hepatica will be found to be one of the longest and oldest co evolutionary 
partners of Q robur/petrea and C. sativa and that in these hosts they have 
massive morphological effects, that have shaped and formed some of the 
greatest of our veteran oaks and Sweet chestnuts, also that under certain 
antagonistic situations fistulina can and does have huge implications in 
hazard assessment, particularly when antagonised by close interaction with 
L. sulphureus in the main stem.
Oh, while were gambling, i will also predict that soft rot will be found as 
a mode within other basidiomycetes (besides meripilus, Pholiota and 
Inonotus variants and that it is a means of advancing colonisation as a two 
mode approach, while the tree is asleep and unable to effect a "reaction"
CODIT is maybe just anotomical structure, not a defence, that reaction 
zones are just that a reaction to infiltration and a tree must be actively 
growing to facilitate such reactions.
so, theres my "prophecy" and i will accept the beatings due in the course 
of time, if i am proved wrong! Which I doubt so much so because i am so 
darn certain.
This science is relatively new, we cannot expect to find the truth in books 
and others work alone, all that must begin in the field, with bold guesses 
and intuition.
I am going to enjoy the next years of my work.
I apologise to all pedants for my lack of grammar, etiquette and format 
etc, I wont deny that i have some very big faults in this area/arena but I 
do believe with utter conviction in that which is of most importance, my 
experience of working and studying trees and fungi.
dont underestimate the fungi just because someone told you to! i certainly 
never will.
dont even get me started on colybia, auriularia mesenterica, pholiota 
aurivella....
takes a deep breath, and releases the pin, FIRE IN THE HOLE!!!!
tony

From: david.evans@xxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk
To: uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info
Subject: RE: Ganoderma applanatum/australe on n.maple - implications
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:25:12 +0000

<<AV - 2) Are you saying you have evidence that G. adspersum/australe can 
readily breach the reaction zone and/or boundary zone of functional xylem 
and then colonise that wood in a tree with good vitality?

VS - 2) Not evidence on a microscopical level in a living tree (yet), but 
assuming G. australe can, because of its (partially sterile) panic 
fruiting just before or shortly after the tree dies and not being able to 
produce (completely) fertile brackets from dead wood alone.>>

Hi Gerrit

If I read this correctly, you're saying you're 'reading' the fruiting 
bodies, extrapolating from this, and making assumptions as to invasive 
ability of G. adspersum/australe to breach reaction zones?  Do you have 
any opinions about the vitality of the tree and the functionality of the 
xylem when you think reaction zones are being breached, or does this not 
matter?  Do you apply the same principles to boundary zones?  

As mentioned previously, I'll start the 'panic fruiting' thread to 
discuss this with part of a post you made after the message above.

Cheers

Acer ventura




-- 
The UK Tree Care mailing list
To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by The Arbor Centre
http://www.arborcentre.co.uk/
                                        


-- 
The UK Tree Care mailing list
To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by The Arbor Centre
http://www.arborcentre.co.uk/




-- 
The UK Tree Care mailing list
To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by The Arbor Centre
http://www.arborcentre.co.uk/
                                          


-- 
The UK Tree Care mailing list
To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by The Arbor Centre
http://www.arborcentre.co.uk/