UKTC Archive

Re: Water Demand of Cotoneaster

Subject: Re: Water Demand of Cotoneaster
From: Bill Anderson
Date: Sep 06 2017 12:57:43
The point I'm trying to get at is that the soil may become desiccated once
the foundation is built and then it may get wet again, even within Ron's 10
years. So the state of play at the time the foundation is designed is here
nor there, unless we're going to start having laws that dictate what can
and can't be planted after the building's erected. I accept that an
insurance company or mortgage lender could say "no cover or loan unless you
agree to grow no trees," but how can the insurers put that imposition on a
neighbour?
Bill.

On 6 September 2017 at 12:22, Howe, Ron <Ron.Howe@xxxxxxxxxxx.gov.uk> wrote:

Mmmm, the ground tends to recover at a consistent rate Bill because of
equilibrium and the rate at which clay can respond, regardless of extreme
weather patterns and because average annual rainfall is pretty consistent
in good old Blighty. That’s why they say allow three years for recovery ...
just in case something really unusual happens. Usually, the worst effects
of soil recovery are within the next season from what I can remember from
Biddle and Dowson et.al.

Ron Howe
Tree Officer (Planning)
Mole Valley District Council
Tel. 01306 XXX XXX


-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info [mailto:uktc-request@lists.
tree-care.info] On Behalf Of Bill Anderson
Sent: 05 September 2017 18:07
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: Re: Water Demand of Cotoneaster

The heave risk ought to take account of future drought events and
subsequent rainfall oughtn't it? Whether the soil is currently desiccated
or not is not really a consideration. (I don't consider this to be shooting
your hat off Andrew....) Bill.

On 5 September 2017 at 17:22, "Andrew Belson" <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
wrote:

Dear Will and Collective,

I rarely put my head above the parapets as when I do, I usually get my
hat shot off....

That said, here's my opinion.

You say the site is cleared.  In that case, all you need to know for
the heave risk is: 'is the soil desiccated? (at or below foundation
depth)'
Soil testing will tell you that.  The vegetation present is irrelevant
(so far as heave calculation is concerned).

Heave = recovery; therefore, no desiccation = no volume to recover.

In relation to foundation design, if pushed for a 'water demand' for a
Cotoneaster then I'd say 'medium' based on the fact that the NHBC have
put most of the Rosaceae trees in that part of Table 12.

I'd put Pittosporum in 'Low' because of the (relatively) slow growth
and hard leaves.  However, as others have pointed out, if you don’t
know, you have to assume worst case for the NHBC to be happy.

The final point I want to make is that I think we should collectively
avoid referring to roots 'below foundations'.  My preference being 'at
foundation depth'.  This is because I think it perpetuates the
layman's understanding of how trees cause damage.

Regards,

Andrew




-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info [mailto:uktc-request@lists.
tree-care.info] On Behalf Of will ross
Sent: 05 September 2017 10:59
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: RE: Water Demand of Cotoneaster

I agree with both answers in this case the site has been cleared and
the engineer is trying to work out the so called water demand of the
trees/shrubs that were there to design for potential  heave, in
reality I agree with Jim as far as rooting depth and also general
conditions including vitality of particular specimens.
Again many thanks , any further thoughts would be welcome.

Will

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info [mailto:uktc-request@lists.
tree-care.info] On Behalf Of Liam McKarry
Sent: 05 September 2017 10:46
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: RE: Water Demand of Cotoneaster

I've always thought 'Water Demand' was a silly term.

Plants remove water from the soil, anything that can root under
foundations can therefore remove water from clay causing it to reduce
in size meaning that foundations will move downward. Whether it's high
demand or low demand seems a bit arbitrary.

If differential movement has occurred where the plant is and there are
roots beneath the foundations it's a good bet that it's either the
sole cause or a contributing factor (in combination with other
trees/shrubs
nearby) to the clay shrinkage.



Liam McKarry
Arboricultural Officer (Planning) • Corporate and Place Services   •
Colchester Borough Council • www.colchester.gov.uk


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-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info [mailto:uktc-request@lists.
tree-care.info] On Behalf Of Jim Quaife
Sent: 05 September 2017 10:23
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: RE: Water Demand of Cotoneaster

Water demand is a term that is understood and in common usage, but the
trees with the higher WD are generally those better able to root
deeply - coincidence eh??
I doubt that there are any data so if you need to be definite it would
have to be a trial hole to discover the rooting depth profile.
I know that pyracantha is a bad boy in subs, but usually when grown
against the wall.  I have no idea about cotoneaster.
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info [mailto:uktc-request@lists.
tree-care.info] On Behalf Of will ross
Sent: 05 September 2017 10:06
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: Water Demand of Cotoneaster

Hi,

    Does anyone have an idea of water demand for a cotoneaster, I am
working from a third party report and the engineer is requesting
further detail, the estimated height was 8m so I presume it was one of
the large shrub/tree type such as waterii, also they have asked for
the water demand of Pittosporum which I can't find. Any help would be
welcome.



Will




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To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy
http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/