UKTC Archive

Re: Problems with Tree Sand

Subject: Re: Problems with Tree Sand
From: Bill Anderson
Date: Dec 06 2017 14:44:38
Were they Alnus cordata? It's possible they've got the potential for being
an invasive pest; partly because they grow on next to nothing. I found them
self-setting on a fairly toxic-looking demolished pottery kiln site once.
(Toxic? nothing else was growing.) Possibly unwise to draw any conclusions
about the merits of Tree Sand from success with Italian Alder!
Bill

On 6 December 2017 at 13:58, Jonathan Warren <
Jonathan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk> wrote:

Shame about the alder, they did better at one end of the street than the
other I think.  My guess was they quickly broke into a good supply of soil
somewhere (just a guess!).  CCTV!!

Jonathan Warren
Principal Arboricultural Consultant






Mobile: 07971 XXXXXX
Phone: 01803 XXXXXX
Web: www.devontreeservices.co.uk




Devon Tree Services Ltd, Little Acre, Ipplepen, Newton Abbot TQ12 5TR
Registered in England, No 5224057Registered Office: Sigma House, Oak View
Close, Edginswell Park, Torquay TQ2 7FF
V.A.T. No. 585 8XXX XX
Directors: A W Burton N.C.H. (Arb.)., S A Burton

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-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info [mailto:uktc-request@lists.
tree-care.info] On Behalf Of Elton Watson
Sent: 06 December 2017 12:10
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: RE: Problems with Tree Sand

They are still going, slowly, probably same size they were when you left,
not been helped by being hacked for cctv splays. The Alders on Yorke St
however, did so well that I have had to remove 2 of them due to the
buckling of the paving. If I recall,  I think Jeremy Barrell has some
interesting stuff on his website regarding sand based structural soils and
their use in Holland.

Best regards - Elton
-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info [mailto:uktc-request@lists.
tree-care.info] On Behalf Of Jonathan Warren
Sent: 06 December 2017 11:21
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: RE: Problems with Tree Sand

Hi Elton,  Good to hear from you and I'm good thanks (it's not as sunny as
you may think!).

I remember digging around the root balls of the ash trees on High Street
(I think) in Wrexham to clear the irrigation systems.  They were planted in
a sand based medium and I was amazed that the roots had barely broke free
from the original wire basket and they had been in the ground for at least
10 years I think.  This was mirrored in the poor canopies of most of them.
We carried out some terraventing and I think we used mycorrhizae to try to
improve the conditions. Are they still going?





Jonathan Warren
Principal Arboricultural Consultant






Mobile: 07971 XXXXXX
Phone: 01803 XXXXXX
Web: www.devontreeservices.co.uk




Devon Tree Services Ltd, Little Acre, Ipplepen, Newton Abbot TQ12 5TR
Registered in England, No 5224057Registered Office: Sigma House, Oak View
Close, Edginswell Park, Torquay TQ2 7FF V.A.T. No. 585 8XXX XX
Directors: A W Burton N.C.H. (Arb.)., S A Burton

DISCLAIMER: This e-mail contains proprietary information some or all of
which may be legally privileged. It is for the intended recipient only. If
an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, please
notify the author by replying to this e-mail and then delete it from your
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distribute, copy, print, or rely on this e-mail. Any files attached to this
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However you should carry out your own virus check before opening any
attachment. Devon Tree Services Limited accepts no liability for any loss
or damage which may be caused by software viruses.





-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info [mailto:uktc-request@lists.
tree-care.info] On Behalf Of Elton Watson
Sent: 06 December 2017 10:34
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: RE: Problems with Tree Sand

Hi Jonathan,
Hope you are well and sunny Devon is treating you well. I agree that we
should be trying to replicate natural conditions where possible, getting
planners, developers and engineers  to do it is the hard part, I think we
should be wary of blanket proclamations  that thou shalt not use tree sand
anywhere ever again, but that we should know the limitations of whatever
product we use and plan accordingly to try and achieve the best outcome. In
some circumstances wider walkways and more room for trees could be achieved
by removing a lot of the unnecessary street clutter! We've got a street
where there is a bin practically every 5 m.

Best regards

Elton Watson

Uwch Swyddog Coed / Senior Tree Officer

Gwelwch y dudalen coed ar ein gwefan- www.wrecsam.gov.uk/coed

Visit the tree page of our website - www.wrexham.gov.uk/trees





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  Environment & Planning, Abbey Road South, Wrexham Industrial Estate,
Wrexham, LL13 9PW Amglchedd a Chynllunio, De Ffordd yr Abaty, Ystad
Ddwydiannol Wrecsam, LL13 9PW
   wrexham.gov.uk | wrecsam.gov.uk
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-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info [mailto:uktc-request@lists.
tree-care.info] On Behalf Of Jonathan Warren
Sent: 06 December 2017 09:48
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: RE: Problems with Tree Sand

I have a feeling someone has written about this in the Arb Journal (if not
there's an opportunity) and there has been endless discussion about this in
the past.  I seem to remember sand based systems are based on the
'Amsterdam tree sand' model, one critical thing being in Amsterdam they can
control the water table (please correct me if I'm wrong about this).

Having scanned through the Green Blue Urban study I am not convinced it
provides an anywhere near robust methodology as I would want to see
something much longer in time.  I also wonder about the amount of plastics
we are putting into the ground.

Personally I think we need to work harder on changing attitudes to urban
infrastructure.  E.g. Wider walkways (where needed) with open continuous
tree pits filled with soil, replicate the natural environment as much as we
can.. it's all been said before and we appear to be going round in circles!!

Regards


Jonathan Warren
Principal Arboricultural Consultant






Mobile: 07971 XXXXXX
Phone: 01803 XXXXXX
Web: www.devontreeservices.co.uk




Devon Tree Services Ltd, Little Acre, Ipplepen, Newton Abbot TQ12 5TR
Registered in England, No 5224057Registered Office: Sigma House, Oak View
Close, Edginswell Park, Torquay TQ2 7FF V.A.T. No. 585 8XXX XX
Directors: A W Burton N.C.H. (Arb.)., S A Burton

DISCLAIMER: This e-mail contains proprietary information some or all of
which may be legally privileged. It is for the intended recipient only. If
an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, please
notify the author by replying to this e-mail and then delete it from your
computer. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disclose,
distribute, copy, print, or rely on this e-mail. Any files attached to this
e-mail will have been checked with virus detection software before
transmission.
However you should carry out your own virus check before opening any
attachment. Devon Tree Services Limited accepts no liability for any loss
or damage which may be caused by software viruses.





-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info [mailto:uktc-request@lists.
tree-care.info] On Behalf Of WILKINS PETER
Sent: 06 December 2017 06:34
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: Problems with Tree Sand


I fully agree with Ben Rose and his comments on tree sand and tree
planting.

In addition to the use of tree sand,  landscape architects are still
regularly specifying 200mm of urban tree soil or topsoil to cover the
rootball.

Many of these architects are using cad blocks provided by suppliers of
planting paraphernalia.

If you have any doubts over the poor planting practices promoted by these
companies,  please have a look at the images used on their websites.

The trees shown on their websites are all planted too deep, with no root
collar visible and with a layer of ‘soil’ and mulch covering the rootball
and piled up against the trunk.

These products might work but their efficacy is severely compromised and
money is wasted by planting the tree too deep.

Regards

Peter Wilkins


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