UKTC Archive

Re: Woodland Heritage Save Our Oak

Subject: Re: Woodland Heritage Save Our Oak
From: Wayne Tyson
Date: Dec 22 2017 01:00:00
(Dom) I didn't intend to imply that you had implied anything untoward. My
main concern is that Forum participants are allowed to opt out rather than
presumptively excluding them based on my own bias. I'd be interested in
learning more about your hypothesis and the research associated with it.
I'm no expert on mycorrhizal associations, but have worked with one the the
early researchers in the field. If I understand it correctly, the symbiosis
is an exchange of plant-produced carbon for nutrients such as phosphorus
that otherwise would be unavailable to the plant. Of course, the microbiome
involves many other types of organisms, such as free-living
nitrogen-fixers. I am not at all up to date on the research.

I'd be happy to answer any questions about my experiences with ecosystem
restoration. In my work I followed the Robin Hood approach to management.
My associates would have to show they knew more about the subject than I
(be able to knock me off the log) before I would include them in my merry
band ("Staffing from strength," as Drucker would put it.) There is no such
thing as a one-man show, and I credit a long string of mentors; my part was
to put the parts together and ask "what if?"

Wayne

“Ecosystems are not only more complex than we think, they are more complex
than we *can *think.” --Frank Egler


On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 2:35 AM, Dom Gane <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> wrote:

[Text converted from HTML]
I didn't intend to imply anything untoward. I have an interest in your
experiences with habitat restoration particularly the soils which may not
be shared by the group as a whole. But you are correct that if people
aren't interested they can overlook the posts.
I assume Chris Hastie is still running the forum, though I haven't seen
him lately. I suggest he would be the forum officer so to speak.
It's interesting you mention recruitment. I briefly did a little work
with a research group looking at canopy collapse in ancient semi natural
beech woodland. Recruitment was terrible as was the condition of the
mature trees, the prevailing cause was thought to be overgrazing (after
Vera) however I noticed that early successional species, birch and goat
willow, were getting into the experimental sites. Ectomycorrhizal fungi
(ECM) are known to play a role in structuring plant communities and beech
have a very high diversity associating with them. My hypothesis was that
the ECM communities has beyond a tipping point destabilising the climax
community and favouring an earlier sucessional stage. The supposed
drivers were clinate and atmospheric deposition. One thing which was to
be examined was ECM species richness (SPRICH) and tree pathogen (SPRICH)
along gradients of tree/ canopy decline using visual assessment and DNA
id of ECM rootips. I don't know the outcome of the research sadly I had
to discontinue my involvement due to Ill health. But I suspect many of
the tree pests diseases we are seeing sweeping though our forests have a
similar root. Pardon the pun. Of course globalisation and climatic change
are moving these organisms around and providing favourable conditions for
growth. However the susceptibility of the trees is down to damage we have
caused to their symbiont communities.

On 21 Dec 2017 03:23, Wayne Tyson <wt750mv@xxxxxx.com> wrote:

  I do not mind being contacted directly regarding matters of no
  interest to
  the Forum at large, but if the discussion is relevant to its goals
  and
  subject matter, I am reluctant to be secretive about it. I believe
  that
  most matters that are relevant can be adequately policed with the
  delete
  key, which I commonly employ with great vigor. I particularly insist
  that
  those who are moved to rudeness not hide their behavior by raving
  off-list;
  when such folk do vent directly, however, I take no action. You, Dom,
  or
  anyone else, are welcome to use my email address.

  For example, I have noted with great interest the recent postings
  about the
  loss of oaks to disease and have wondered if there have been any
  observations of patterns related to things like density, recruitment,
  and
  understory composition; I presume that such would be of interest to
  the
  Forum, whereas technical discussion about microbiomes might or might
  not
  be. For now, I will probably continue to use my judgment about my
  posts,
  and presume that the moderator will inform me of any bad behavior.

  Wayne

  On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Dom Gane <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
  wrote:

  > [Text converted from HTML]
  > I was dangling off the rear of two strokes at a similar age, I hope
  I
  > have a few years left in me yet, time will tell. I'd like to
  continue
  > this discussion but I'm not sure the whole of uktc will appreciate
  us
  > clogging their inboxes. If you are agreeable how may I contact you?
  > On 21 Dec 2017 01:01, Wayne Tyson <wt750mv@xxxxxx.com> wrote:
  >
  > I appreciate everyone's insight, in and out of "the industry."
  >
  > I've been retired for almost 18 years. I started debarking trees
  and
  > pulling stumps before I was ten, have worked in trees, plant
  nursery,
  > landscaping, forestry, park construction inspection, park
  management,
  > park
  > planning, and ecosystem restoration--just to hit the high spots,
  not
  > counting the military all my life.
  >
  > I continue to study. The project to which I referred was discussed
  in
  > an
  > article in the January 1979 issue of *Landscape Architecture. *I am
  > currently working on a project to restore the Torrey pines woodland
  > ecosystem to a ten acre site on the campus of Scripps Institution
  of
  > Oceanography (University of California San Diego). We will be using
  > inoculum from the indigenous soil microbiome in this work. The site
  > work is
  > to be completed in late 2018. The idea is to restore the entire
  > complex of
  > indigenous species from bacteria to trees. I had a consulting
  > business from
  > 1979 to 2000, and had done some consulting work in the late 1960's
  > following my military service.
  >
  > "Fluxes" are always with us; human activity has long perturbed
  > ecosystems,
  > especially since the displacement of social organizations with
  > culture, at
  > an accelerating pace, which seems to be nearing terminal velocity.
  We
  > may
  > learn in time, or we may not, but optimism is the only option.
  >
  > Wayne
  >
  > On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 3:02 PM, Dom Gane
  <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
  > wrote:
  >
  > > [Text converted from HTML]
  > > Thank you Wayne. I have raised such ideas here in the past, to a
  > lukewarm
  > > reception. It's refreshing to come across someone in the industry
  > who has
  > > some insight.
  > > I suspect the flux we witness is linked closely to anthropogenic
  > drivers
  > > and what many view as the 6th extinction event.
  > > What projects were you involved in?
  > >
  > > On 20 Dec 2017 22:20, Wayne Tyson <wt750mv@xxxxxx.com> wrote:
  > >
  > > I believe you are right. In fact, I suspect (and supporting
  > evidence
  > > is
  > > growing) that soil microbiomes are the essential component in
  > > ecosystem
  > > health, including, of course, mycorrhizal fungi. I suspect that
  > > microbiomes
  > > are in a constant state of flux, reflecting the dynamic web of
  > life,
  > > from
  > > individual organisms to all ecosystems large and small.
  > >
  > > This was the key concept behind ecosystem restoration which I
  first
  > > worked
  > > out in a very crude (but effective) way in the late '60's and
  > applied
  > > to my
  > > first truly successful (after at least fifteen years of failures)
  > > large-scale ecosystem restoration project in 1972. As I continued
  > to
  > > work
  > > over the years, I was forced (seduced) to consider smaller and
  > > smaller
  > > organisms and their interdependence with other organisms.
  > >
  > > So you can see that I was and am truly interested in elaboration
  on
  > > your
  > > point of trophic "cascades."
  > >
  > > Wayne
  > >
  > > On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 9:19 AM, Dom Gane
  > <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
  > > wrote:
  > >
  > > > [Text converted from HTML]
  > > > Trophic. I'm not being obscure. I think that soil the
  > communities,
  > > likely
  > > > mycorrhizal fungi, have changed due to climate change and
  > > atmospheric
  > > > deposition, possibly eutrophication. I think, and there is good
  > > evidence
  > > > that multitrophic interactions occur between mycs and insect
  > > herbivores.
  > > > I have data which indicates that S. bovinus (a mycorrhizal
  fungi)
  > > > inhibits A. mellea.
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > --
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  > >
  > >
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To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy
http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/