UKTC Archive

Re: Root damage & delayed bud burst

Subject: Re: Root damage & delayed bud burst
From: John Hearne
Date: May 10 2018 08:31:58
______________________________________________________________________
Tree Diagnostics Ltd, Investigation Equipment - Arb Show - Stand T28
Pocket Equipment MICROSECOND-TIMER, provides quick onsite information 
ARBORSONIC 3D TOMOGRAPHY gives details about a trees interior 
Get information on fungi even before the wood decays using ARBORELECTRO
ROOT DETECTOR map & show root connectivity. Assess tree stability by 
STATICS LOAD TEST (PULLING) or measure response to wind using DYNAROOT
www.treediagnostics.co.uk    01423 XXX XXX    info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk
______________________________________________________________________

Thanks Phillip, that's helpful. I now realise which book I should have been
going to for a possible explanation. In the age of the internet there is a
tendency to be lazy....

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 7:57 AM, Philip Wilson <philip@xxxxxx.com> wrote:

______________________________________________________________________
Tree Diagnostics Ltd, Investigation Equipment - Arb Show - Stand T28
Pocket Equipment MICROSECOND-TIMER, provides quick onsite information
ARBORSONIC 3D TOMOGRAPHY gives details about a trees interior
Get information on fungi even before the wood decays using ARBORELECTRO
ROOT DETECTOR map & show root connectivity. Assess tree stability by
STATICS LOAD TEST (PULLING) or measure response to wind using DYNAROOT
www.treediagnostics.co.uk    01423 XXX XXX    info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk
______________________________________________________________________

John,
At the risk of over-simplifying, osmotic potential in the bud increases as
starch is broken down to sugars in spring, and the consequent local influx
of water causes them to expand (since they are extensible). According to
this simple model, following severe root damage,  budburst could easily be
late (or not occur at all) depending on how depleted of starch the bud (and
perhaps shoot) became in the previous season. It would also be plausible if
budburst were late and the leaves fragile. Any continuing effects would be
felt once the leaves began to import from the rest of the plant -  for
instance water stress in the whole plant could restrict  leaf expansion.
Philip

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info [mailto:uktc-request@lists.
tree-care.info] On Behalf Of John Hearne
Sent: 10 May 2018 07:46
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: Re: Root damage & delayed bud burst

______________________________________________________________________
Tree Diagnostics Ltd, Investigation Equipment - Arb Show - Stand T28
Pocket Equipment MICROSECOND-TIMER, provides quick onsite information
ARBORSONIC 3D TOMOGRAPHY gives details about a trees interior Get
information on fungi even before the wood decays using ARBORELECTRO ROOT
DETECTOR map & show root connectivity. Assess tree stability by STATICS
LOAD TEST (PULLING) or measure response to wind using DYNAROOT
www.treediagnostics.co.uk    01423 XXX XXX    info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk
______________________________________________________________________

Hi Wayne, the tree that prompted my query also has minor dieback from
tips, prompting my first suspicion of damage from adjacent development - I
was merely speculating that delayed bud burst was a further symptom of the
same problem. Development of close adjacent land was completed last year.

So I guess I can refer to the symptom as being 'possibly' associated with
root damage...or possibly a quite normal result of other complex factors!!
Or I can avoid all speculation about it in the report (safer perhaps).

John

On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 8:18 PM, Wayne Tyson <wt750mv@xxxxxx.com> wrote:

______________________________________________________________________
__ Tree Diagnostics Ltd, Investigation Equipment - Arb Show - Stand
T28 Pocket Equipment MICROSECOND-TIMER, provides quick onsite
information ARBORSONIC 3D TOMOGRAPHY gives details about a trees
interior Get information on fungi even before the wood decays using
ARBORELECTRO ROOT DETECTOR map & show root connectivity. Assess tree
stability by STATICS LOAD TEST (PULLING) or measure response to wind
using DYNAROOT
www.treediagnostics.co.uk    01423 XXX XXX    info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk
______________________________________________________________________
__

I am so delighted to see true intellectual discipline in action! Real
*thinking*, real *questioning* rather than presuming. Advancing an
hypothesis. Advancing of alternative hypotheses.

I look forward to more, and their testing with disciplined analysis
and observation/experimentation. And I am particularly delighted to
hear that most intelligent of statements--"I don't know." (See
https://newrepublic.com/article/100368/i-dont-know )

Wouldn't it be wonderful if all listserv participants everwhere
subscribed to this concept? No more defending of opinions, traditions,
sacred cows, etc.?

Now, I don't *know*, but I suspect that delayed bud-break just might
(in some cases) be a reflection of a compromised vascular system, and
that continued periodic, but regular observations and comparisons with
other trees of similar size and age (and even other sizes and ages)
might be revealing. While dieback should be cause for similar study, a
general lack of overall leaf quantity, quality, and number also may
signal trouble. It other cases I suspect that trees simply outgrow
places to collect nutrients and conduct respiration.

I hope others will dig deeper (perhaps literally?) into this issue as
well as other symptomology that has predictive value with respect to
tree condition, which would advance both science and practice.

Wayne





On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 7:37 AM, Julian Morris <jamorris@xxxxx.com> wrote:

____________________________________________________________________
____ Tree Diagnostics Ltd, Investigation Equipment - Arb Show -
Stand T28 Pocket Equipment MICROSECOND-TIMER, provides quick onsite
information ARBORSONIC 3D TOMOGRAPHY gives details about a trees
interior Get information on fungi even before the wood decays using
ARBORELECTRO ROOT DETECTOR map & show root connectivity. Assess tree
stability by STATICS LOAD TEST (PULLING) or measure response to wind
using DYNAROOT
www.treediagnostics.co.uk    01423 XXX XXX
info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk
____________________________________________________________________
____

Don't know. Go here https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/
climate/uk/about/state-of-climate and click on the 'Phenology
supplement'
link and you will see regional correlation data for bud burst,
temperature,
rainfall atc. for various species. Not conclusive, so much so that
it suggests that the inter-relationships are so complex and the lags
so inevitable that they'd be hard to pin down for normal trees. Just
looking at the graphs I can see that rain means cloud means less sun
and lower temperatures, so it might be that the rain is interfering
with normal temperature or daylighting triggers.

Good luck with it. I have a vague recollection of reading once that
traumatised trees take a couple of extra days to get vascular
pressures
up
to normal and deal with partial cavitation in spring, but I might
just as well have dreamt it after too much cheese.

Julian A. Morris - Professional Tree Services jamtrees.co.uk  and
highhedgesscotland.com
0778 XXX XXXX - 0141 XXX XXXX


Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2018 at 12:16 PM
From: "John Hearne" <johnhearne7@xxxxxx.com>
To: "UK Tree Care" <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: Re: Root damage & delayed bud burst

____________________________________________________________
____________
Tree Diagnostics Ltd, Investigation Equipment - Arb Show - Stand
T28 Pocket Equipment MICROSECOND-TIMER, provides quick onsite
information ARBORSONIC 3D TOMOGRAPHY gives details about a trees
interior Get information on fungi even before the wood decays
using ARBORELECTRO ROOT DETECTOR map & show root connectivity.
Assess tree stability by STATICS LOAD TEST (PULLING) or measure
response to wind using DYNAROOT
www.treediagnostics.co.uk    01423 XXX XXX
info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk
____________________________________________________________
____________

Well, in the absence of takers for my query, i have learned that
trials with Spruce showed bud burst being brought forward by
nutrient applications. Might this mean that nutrient deprivation
(or water
shortage
for that matter) - perhaps as a result of root damage - could
delay bud burst? It makes sense to me that the tree might
prioritise allocation
of
resources to root regeneration after damage, prior to flushing,
but it would be nice to see it writ as fact somewhere.

John

On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 2:53 PM, John Hearne
<johnhearne7@xxxxxx.com>
wrote:

Dear all, I realise there is some variety in timing of bud burst
between
individuals, but I suspect a late leafer (in comparison with all
around it)
is at least partly due to root damage during development. I
can't
find
reference to the symptom/cause in my books though. Am I making it
up?

Any thoughts appreciated.

Cheers

John

--

Hearne Arboriculture

www.hearnearboriculture.com




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