UKTC Archive

RE: Tree professionalism WAS London tree WAS Tree hazard potential assessment study BREAKS Close calls

Subject: RE: Tree professionalism WAS London tree WAS Tree hazard potential assessment study BREAKS Close calls
From: Jim Quaife
Date: Jul 09 2018 11:30:01
Er ... that's Blom Cooper!  Just noticed the careless typo - no offence mant 
to Sir Louis!
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info 
[mailto:uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info] On Behalf Of Michael Richardson
Sent: 09 July 2018 12:26
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: Re: Tree professionalism WAS London tree WAS Tree hazard potential 
assessment study BREAKS Close calls

A professional college also helps to define a professional. Absolutely.

Here in North America the only way to lose your ISA certifications or 
qualifications is to stop paying.  In the Province of Ontario the Arborist 
(and Utility Arborist) skilled trade qualification was lifetime based and is 
now based on a yearly fee but no method of review for incompetence.

Michael Richardson B.Sc.F., BCMA
Ontario MTCU Qualified Arborist
Richardson Tree Care
Richardsontreecare.ca
613-475-2877
800-769-9183

  <http://www.richardsontreecare.ca/images/Tree_Doc_logo_email.png>


On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 5:35 AM, Wayne Tyson <wt750mv@xxxxxx.com> wrote:

One who questions--particularly his/her own assumptions first.

On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 1:29 AM, Jim Quaife <jq@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk>
wrote:

Many years ago I had the pleasure of sitting next to Sir Louis
Blom-Copper
(pivotal in the Dr Meadows case where a doctor strayed from his 
professional discipline by talking about probability in evidence) 
and I asked him what he regarded as a definition of a profession?
His answer was succinct:
The ability to complain.
That simple statement is beautifully precise because (assuming that 
a complaint made to the professional association is dealt with 
properly)
for
a complaint procedure to be exercised there has to be a whole raft 
of policies, procedures, controls, standards and administration in place.
I have yet to hear a better definition.
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info [mailto:uktc-request@lists.
tree-care.info] On Behalf Of Michael Richardson
Sent: 08 July 2018 20:42
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: Re: Tree professionalism WAS London tree WAS Tree hazard 
potential assessment study BREAKS Close calls

I think one of the huge issues is that the terms professional and 
professionalism are not well understood and organizations such as 
ISA has co-opted the terms and lead hands-on tradesman (working tree 
people) to believe there limited skill set is enough to consult etc.  
Professional refers to a person or job that requires lots of 
specialized education and professionalism to the traits needed.  
Tree workers do not have this, nor do most arborists, consulting 
arborists etc.

When you consider that a tree (an autotroph) is in many ways more 
complicated compared with a human (hetertroph) surely an 
understanding of trees, biology, physiology, mycology, physics, and 
mechanics is needed to have any hope of being a good tree risk 
assessor.  Further this
knowledge,
gathered through extensive study, must be supplemented with experience.

Arborists generally don't know that they don't know!

Michael Richardson B.Sc.F., BCMA
Ontario MTCU Qualified Arborist
Richardson Tree Care
Richardsontreecare.ca
613-475-2877
800-769-9183

  <http://www.richardsontreecare.ca/images/Tree_Doc_logo_email.png>


On Sat, Jul 7, 2018 at 5:45 PM, Wayne Tyson <wt750mv@xxxxxx.com> wrote:

 Thank you, Michael, for the highly *responsive* reply to my enquiry!
Unfortunately the tommyrot of which you speak is widespread here 
in the US too.

When I was in the consulting business and working for various 
agencies, it was my practice to retain people who knew what I 
didn't know--in fact, I would even call in people who were better 
than I even when I knew quite a bit about a particular subject. 
When I took a course in Business Law, the professor said that he 
was going to teach us how to know when we needed a lawyer and when 
we didn't. It would seem to me that the arborist profession would 
enhance its reputation if it drew the crucial distinctions between 
knowledge and presumption, practice and sound theory (as 
synthesized
knowledge) in action (educated observation), and pat answers vs
enquiry.
*Understanding* has no substitute; still it is always incomplete. 
I question my own assumptions before questioning those of others, 
but questioning a person who truly understands is always welcome.

Thank you also, for the recommended references. However, if I buy 
one more book, my wife may divorce me for raiding our retirement 
fund again. And, my cup runneth over. I may well run the risk in 
this case,
however.

Wayne

PS: While I can barely spel mycologist, I hope I know when I need one.
If I didn't have radar, I might resort to a mallet, followed by an 
increment borer, or approved substitute. If radar was available, 
that
would be best.
But I see this case as a shot across the bow--they should call you 
in before another one of those old, old trees kills someone. Oh 
yes, I almost forgot--would you and the crew care to discuss the 
common misconceptions found in arborist's reports such as "The 
tree was perfectly healthy but was rotten inside." And "The wind 
(or God, or softened soil, or the uptake of water adding weight, 
ad nauseam)
*caused* the tree to fall?



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To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy
http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/