UKTC Archive

RE: RE: Consultation on Welsh Law regarding trees

Subject: RE: RE: Consultation on Welsh Law regarding trees
From: Alastair Durkin
Date: Jan 11 2019 09:40:13
"I thought it was self-explanatory. But maybe one has to be not english to 
understand it?"

I think you're reading too much into that extract to be honest Julian. 

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info 
[mailto:uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info] On Behalf Of Julian Morris
Sent: 11 January 2019 09:35
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: Re: RE: Consultation on Welsh Law regarding trees

I thought it was self-explanatory. But maybe one has to be not english to 
understand it?

When the AA publicised the consultation, it said "If the suggested changes 
are introduced in Wales, there would be at least some chance that they might 
one day also be introduced in England, so it would be good to get them right."

Does no-one else see that the welsh regime only seems to matter because it 
might affect England?

Julian A. Morris - Professional Tree Services jamtrees.co.uk  and  
highhedgesscotland.com
0778 XXX XXXX - 0141 XXX XXXX


Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 at 9:08 AM
From: "Alastair Durkin" <ADurkin@xxxxxxxxxx.gov.uk>
To: "UK Tree Care" <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: RE: Consultation on Welsh Law regarding trees

" The anglocentric view ("it's relevant because it will probably be adopted 
in England") is the same one the AA took. How about "it's relevant because 
trees need more protection" or "it's relevant because Wales planning law 
needs reform"? Thanks, England, we love you too!"

Hi Julian, can you explain what you mean here?

Thanks

Alastair

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info 
[mailto:uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info] On Behalf Of Julian Morris
Sent: 11 January 2019 08:49
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: Re: Consultation on Welsh Law regarding trees

I made representations, and although I was misquoted in the analysis 
Charles Mynors has subsequently apologised and I have corresponed with him 
on some of the detail that will be needed to make the loss of the 
'nuisance' exemption work (principally the right to compensation including 
for loss in land value). As such. it is fab to have him there giving trees 
a really thorough non-political scrutiny. And there's a more general move 
to recognise it's the tree that's TPO'd, not the land it's standing on. 
Which makes sense and is in my view long overdue. I dont' think this would 
have been brought about but for CM's role.

The anglocentric view ("it's relevant because it will probably be adopted 
in England") is the same one the AA took. How about "it's relevant because 
trees need more protection" or "it's relevant because Wales planning law 
needs reform"? Thanks, England, we love you too!

Julian A. Morris - Professional Tree Services jamtrees.co.uk  and  
highhedgesscotland.com
0778 XXX XXXX - 0141 XXX XXXX


Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 at 8:28 AM
From: "Bill Anderson" <anderson.arb.original@xxxxxx.com>
To: "UK Tree Care" <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: Re: Consultation on Welsh Law regarding trees

I note that Dr Professor Sir Lord Saint Charles Mynors was part of 
the review team Tim. Possibly this is why there's quite a bit of 
tree -related stuff in there. Martin Goodall (Planning Law blogger) 
seems to think it's relevant because it will probably be adopted in 
England, eventually, and that it should be welcomed. (He probably 
wasn't just thinking about trees.)

As for the losing the nuisance exemption; the more I think about 
this the more I realise it can't be any other way. Nuisance that's 
not tree-related would have to be considered at the same time, and 
that seems to put a cat among the pigeons to my way of thinking.

Bill.

On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 at 17:18, Tim Moya 
<tim.moya@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk>
wrote:

This is an old thread and Alistair's post is below.
I may have missed discussion of this as the final report was 
published in November but I've only just realised. It's available 
here 
https://www.lawcom.gov.uk/document/planning-law-in-wales-final-rep
or t/ There is a theory that the changes may be tested in Wales 
for introduction in the rest of the UKthe rest of the UK

There is quite a bit on TPOs including:

- We recommend that the exemption from the need for consent under 
a tree preservation order relating to works that are “necessary to 
prevent or abate a nuisance” (currently in section 198(6)(b) of 
the TCPA 1990) should not be restated either in the Act or in new 
trees regulations.

- We recommend that, when the regulations are next updated, 
consideration should be given to introducing a new exemption to 
allow the carrying out without consent of works to a tree 
protected by a woodland preservation order smaller than a 
specified size, but only where carried out for the sole purpose of 
improving the growth of other trees.

-We recommend that the offence under what is now section 210 of 
the TCPA
1990
(contravening tree preservation regulations) and under regulations 
made pursuant to the provision restating section 202A (prohibiting 
works to a tree subject to a tree preservation order) should be 
framed so as to require the prosecution to prove that:
(1) a copy of the order had been served in accordance with the 
relevant statutory requirements before the start of those works; 
or
(2) a copy of the order was available for public inspection at the 
time of the works.
We also recommend that the regulations should include, alongside 
the requirement to make the order available for inspection, a 
further requirement to record on the order the date on which it 
was first thus made available.

Tim Moya

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info 
<uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
On Behalf Of Alastair Durkin
Sent: 26 January 2018 10:39
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: Consultation on Welsh Law regarding trees

Dear collective

I can't remember if this has already been mentioned but some may 
be aware that Charles Mynors has recently been helping the Law 
Commission with a complete reform of Welsh planning law. The ICF 
has forwarded me the trees bit of the consultation today. There 
are some parts which would get my broad approval, such as:


-          Clarification of the term 'wilful' to be replaced by 
'reckless'
or 'intentional' when applied to TPO offences.

-          That all new 'area' orders cease to exist after 5 years (i.e.
they must be modified prior to confirmation)

-          Getting rid of the nuisance exemption (i.e clarification of
nuisance/mere encroachment of branches or roots)

-          Bringing in some sort of certificate of lawfulness for works 
to
trees (this could help with those tricky old TPO map issues that 
we have recently been discussing)

There is loads of stuff to look at and discuss. However, I am 
really surprised by one of the suggestions that the consultation has 
come up with:

After clarifying at 15.46 that woodland TPOs should apply to all 
trees within the woodland, irrespective of their age, the 
consultation then goes on to propose at 15.84 that there should be 
an exemption for removal of saplings from a woodland, ostensibly 
because it's a pain to make an application when you might want to 
clear undergrowth that may or may not have saplings growing within 
it. Now to me this disrupts the whole point of a woodland TPO, 
which is to protect the woodland as an ongoing entity. It seems to 
me that if they were so inclined a landowner progressively clear a 
protected woodland by the systematic removal of regeneration. If 
anybody thinks my interpretation is incorrect then I would be 
grateful for clarification, but this particular proposal concerns 
me. I will be personally responding to the consultation, and I would 
encourage others to do so too.

Of course at the moment this affects Wales only, but I see no 
reason why the same ideas might not cross over to England, 
Scotland and Northern Ireland.

Alastair

[Tandridge Logo]
Tandridge District Council
The Council Offices
Station Road East
Oxted,Surrey
RH8 0BT

Tel : 01883 XXXXXX
Fax: 01883 XXXXXX
www.tandridge.gov.uk<http://www.tandridge.gov.uk>



Alastair Durkin
Senior Tree Officer
Planning Development Management
adurkin@xxxxxxxxxx.gov.uk<mailto:adurkin@xxxxxxxxxx.gov.uk>







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The UKTC is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy
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