UKTC Archive

Re: Tree hazard potential assessment study Epicormics and Ivy

Subject: Re: Tree hazard potential assessment study Epicormics and Ivy
From: Bill Anderson
Date: Nov 04 2019 13:37:28
I deliberately said "sort of alellopathic deal" Wayne, because I'm not sure
if it is strictly alellopathy. I pointed this (peripheral foliage
conundrum) out to an academic Ecologist once who said "I'll set one of
my graduate students on it" I'm not aware if he ever has done. I've pruned
an Ivy-covered Oak for a neighbour on several occasions, most recently last
month, and the status quo between the Ivy and the host always seems to be
re-established fairly readily. Nonetheless if I inspect a tree where the
Ivy seems to be getting out of the top of the crown, I'm inclined to treat
it as a call for further investigation, but it remains a chicken and egg
situation I think.
Bill.

On Sun, 3 Nov 2019 at 09:54, Brewster, Ian <Ian.Brewster@xxxxxxx.co.uk>
wrote:

Noted that the crown periphery in parts is sparse, dying back or possible
stages of retrenchment.
If allelopathic would this affect the main stem via lenticels or the
competing growths below. Doubt much can survive the deep shade that Ivy
gives so doubt the latter. Though competition for water and nutrients may
stress a mature tree.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: Wayne Tyson <wt750mv@xxxxxx.com>
Date: 02/11/2019 21:44 (GMT+00:00)
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: Re: Tree hazard potential assessment study Epicormics and Ivy

Bill et al,

Thanks for the responses.

I'm an oddball who makes the mistake of telling it like its is (presuming
that I know), so I'm not a part of any whacking group. One of Ewel's
criteria for a restored ecosystem is "resistance to invasion." A healthy
ecosystem should be able to resist most invaders, but there seem to be
notable exceptions. H. helix doesn't seem to be much of a problem in these
parts.

Is there any evidence that ivy is allelopathic? What's the active
principle/mechanism?

I *suspect* that the humidity is higher under the ivy, and it becomes a
moisture trap.

As to the the limbed-up tree, I can't tell much from a photo either, but
the fact that buds were activated just at that one spot makes me wonder
what stimulated the buds to develop into branches. I can't see, of course,
but given the tree's age, I suspect that the branches were removed long ago
and the injuries are covered by bark. US don't do much post-failure studies
or assessments; the main priority is to tidy up (and destroy the evidence).

Best,
Wayne

On Sat, Nov 2, 2019 at 11:57 AM Bill Anderson <
anderson.arb.original@xxxxxx.com> wrote:

It looks to me like somebody made a half-hearted attempt at removing the
ivy from the lower stem.... But from this distance I wouldn't draw any
conclusions. Epicormics being produced like that, when a tree' had lower
branches removed excessively are not surprising to me.
The relationship of Ivy (Hedera helix) with its host trees in this
country
Wayne, is not clear. Some sort of alellopathic deal is going down. Many
hosts seem to live quite happily with it and it never gets anywhere near
growing out of the top of the crown. Once a tree is declining it's a
different matter and stumps completely covered in Ivy (or houses) are a
fairly common sight. I'm vaguely aware that you guys have organisations
devoted to eliminating Ivy (No-Ivy League IIRC?) much as we have
volunteers
attempting to wipe out Rhododendron ponticum in some areas.
Bill.

On Sat, 2 Nov 2019 at 09:54, Brewster, Ian <Ian.Brewster@xxxxxxx.co.uk>
wrote:

Looks like reaction growth (dormant buds becoming viable) to an overly
lifted crown and the ivy is exploiting the now available light.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
Looks like reaction growth (dormant buds becoming viable) to an overly
lifted crown and the ivy is exploiting the now available light.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: Wayne Tyson <wt750mv@xxxxxx.com>
Date: 02/11/2019 05:25 (GMT+00:00)
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: Tree hazard potential assessment study Epicormics and Ivy

Dear lads and lassies,

Would y'all have a look at this tree and tell me what might have caused
the
sprouting of new branches well down the otherwise unbranched trunk?
What
effects have y'all noted with respect to ivy and epicormics in odd
locations like this?




https://www.google.com/maps/@40.9356569,-73.7714749,3a,75y,231.6h,98.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stYkZ11VFspeuTReZTvhXXg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
<
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.9356569,-73.7714749,3a,75y,231.6h,98.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stYkZ11VFspeuTReZTvhXXg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

<


https://www.google.com/maps/@40.9356569,-73.7714749,3a,75y,231.6h,98.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stYkZ11VFspeuTReZTvhXXg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
<
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.9356569,-73.7714749,3a,75y,231.6h,98.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stYkZ11VFspeuTReZTvhXXg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192



Cheers,
Wayne



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http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/<http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/>>
NPS
-------- Original message --------
From: Wayne Tyson <wt750mv@xxxxxx.com>
Date: 02/11/2019 05:25 (GMT+00:00)
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: Tree hazard potential assessment study Epicormics and Ivy

Dear lads and lassies,

Would y'all have a look at this tree and tell me what might have caused
the
sprouting of new branches well down the otherwise unbranched trunk?
What
effects have y'all noted with respect to ivy and epicormics in odd
locations like this?




https://www.google.com/maps/@40.9356569,-73.7714749,3a,75y,231.6h,98.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stYkZ11VFspeuTReZTvhXXg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
<
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.9356569,-73.7714749,3a,75y,231.6h,98.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stYkZ11VFspeuTReZTvhXXg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

<


https://www.google.com/maps/@40.9356569,-73.7714749,3a,75y,231.6h,98.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stYkZ11VFspeuTReZTvhXXg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
<
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.9356569,-73.7714749,3a,75y,231.6h,98.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stYkZ11VFspeuTReZTvhXXg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192



Cheers,
Wayne



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http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/<http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/><
http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/<http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/>>



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Noted that the crown periphery in parts is sparse, dying back or possible
stages of retrenchment.
If allelopathic would this affect the main stem via lenticels or the
competing growths below. Doubt much can survive the deep shade that Ivy
gives so doubt the latter. Though competition for water and nutrients may
stress a mature tree.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: Wayne Tyson <wt750mv@xxxxxx.com>
Date: 02/11/2019 21:44 (GMT+00:00)
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: Re: Tree hazard potential assessment study Epicormics and Ivy

Bill et al,

Thanks for the responses.

I'm an oddball who makes the mistake of telling it like its is (presuming
that I know), so I'm not a part of any whacking group. One of Ewel's
criteria for a restored ecosystem is "resistance to invasion." A healthy
ecosystem should be able to resist most invaders, but there seem to be
notable exceptions. H. helix doesn't seem to be much of a problem in these
parts.

Is there any evidence that ivy is allelopathic? What's the active
principle/mechanism?

I *suspect* that the humidity is higher under the ivy, and it becomes a
moisture trap.

As to the the limbed-up tree, I can't tell much from a photo either, but
the fact that buds were activated just at that one spot makes me wonder
what stimulated the buds to develop into branches. I can't see, of course,
but given the tree's age, I suspect that the branches were removed long ago
and the injuries are covered by bark. US don't do much post-failure studies
or assessments; the main priority is to tidy up (and destroy the evidence).

Best,
Wayne

On Sat, Nov 2, 2019 at 11:57 AM Bill Anderson <
anderson.arb.original@xxxxxx.com> wrote:

It looks to me like somebody made a half-hearted attempt at removing the
ivy from the lower stem.... But from this distance I wouldn't draw any
conclusions. Epicormics being produced like that, when a tree' had lower
branches removed excessively are not surprising to me.
The relationship of Ivy (Hedera helix) with its host trees in this
country
Wayne, is not clear. Some sort of alellopathic deal is going down. Many
hosts seem to live quite happily with it and it never gets anywhere near
growing out of the top of the crown. Once a tree is declining it's a
different matter and stumps completely covered in Ivy (or houses) are a
fairly common sight. I'm vaguely aware that you guys have organisations
devoted to eliminating Ivy (No-Ivy League IIRC?) much as we have
volunteers
attempting to wipe out Rhododendron ponticum in some areas.
Bill.

On Sat, 2 Nov 2019 at 09:54, Brewster, Ian <Ian.Brewster@xxxxxxx.co.uk>
wrote:

Looks like reaction growth (dormant buds becoming viable) to an overly
lifted crown and the ivy is exploiting the now available light.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
Looks like reaction growth (dormant buds becoming viable) to an overly
lifted crown and the ivy is exploiting the now available light.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: Wayne Tyson <wt750mv@xxxxxx.com>
Date: 02/11/2019 05:25 (GMT+00:00)
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: Tree hazard potential assessment study Epicormics and Ivy

Dear lads and lassies,

Would y'all have a look at this tree and tell me what might have caused
the
sprouting of new branches well down the otherwise unbranched trunk?
What
effects have y'all noted with respect to ivy and epicormics in odd
locations like this?




https://www.google.com/maps/@40.9356569,-73.7714749,3a,75y,231.6h,98.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stYkZ11VFspeuTReZTvhXXg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
<
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.9356569,-73.7714749,3a,75y,231.6h,98.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stYkZ11VFspeuTReZTvhXXg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

<


https://www.google.com/maps/@40.9356569,-73.7714749,3a,75y,231.6h,98.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stYkZ11VFspeuTReZTvhXXg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
<
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.9356569,-73.7714749,3a,75y,231.6h,98.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stYkZ11VFspeuTReZTvhXXg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192



Cheers,
Wayne



--
The UK Tree Care mailing list
To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy
http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/<http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/><
http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/<http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/>>
NPS
-------- Original message --------
From: Wayne Tyson <wt750mv@xxxxxx.com>
Date: 02/11/2019 05:25 (GMT+00:00)
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: Tree hazard potential assessment study Epicormics and Ivy

Dear lads and lassies,

Would y'all have a look at this tree and tell me what might have caused
the
sprouting of new branches well down the otherwise unbranched trunk?
What
effects have y'all noted with respect to ivy and epicormics in odd
locations like this?




https://www.google.com/maps/@40.9356569,-73.7714749,3a,75y,231.6h,98.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stYkZ11VFspeuTReZTvhXXg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
<
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.9356569,-73.7714749,3a,75y,231.6h,98.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stYkZ11VFspeuTReZTvhXXg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

<


https://www.google.com/maps/@40.9356569,-73.7714749,3a,75y,231.6h,98.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stYkZ11VFspeuTReZTvhXXg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
<
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.9356569,-73.7714749,3a,75y,231.6h,98.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stYkZ11VFspeuTReZTvhXXg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192



Cheers,
Wayne



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To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

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http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/<http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/><
http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/<http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/>>



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NPS




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To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

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