UKTC Archive

RE: Poll v Bartholomew [2006]

Subject: RE: Poll v Bartholomew [2006]
From: Jim Quaife
Date: Nov 27 2019 16:32:43
I looked into the Poll case in some detail and others had provided a 
transcript of the verbatim court proceedings to me, and this is not the forum 
to indulge in analysis.  However, it is fair to say that NTSG (which was 
prompted in part by Poll) does refer to three levels of inspection and who 
might be appropriate to carry them out, but without references to any 
particular qualifications.
The issue of tree risk is driven by insurance (and I am in no way discounting 
genuine concern and responsibility) and the problem is that tree failure 
stats have no statistical significance.  We have absolutely no idea whether 
our surveys/inspections have ever prevented an incident, apart from cases 
where a tree is an obvious imminent risk.  We might feel that it is right to 
remove a suspect branch threatening a non-static space, and it will be a 
prudent and defensible action, but we have no way of knowing whether had it 
failed it would have caused an incident.
We had what I believe is a very rare experience when a colleague had 
recommended that two large "weary" hybrid black pops should be felled - not 
because they were next to a bridleway and constituted a danger but because 
felling them deliberately would be less inconvenient and cheaper than 
allowing them to fall and block the path.  Three and a half years later at 
the next survey they had fallen over but conveniently only a couple of 
branches had crossed the path and had been cleared. 
Not very startling, until one realises that a prediction actually happened 
within the anticipated timescale.  How often does that happen set against the 
number of trees surveyed?
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info 
[mailto:uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info] On Behalf Of Matt Searle
Sent: 27 November 2019 16:11
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: RE: Poll v Bartholomew [2006]

Thanks for responding Jim. I've seen the AAs leaflet. It works for current 
qualifications, but doesn’t really help when considering the level of 
historical qualifications. I agree with your point about experience (as well 
as training and qualifications).

Matt  

Matt Searle Bsc (Hons) MRTPI, MICFor
Principal Arboricultural Consultant

Treework Environmental Practice
Winner of Trees & Development Award 2018
Mobile: 07903 XXXXXX
Head Office:  0117 XXX XXXX
Southeast: 020 7XXX XXXX
www.treeworks.co.uk

 
Treework Environmental Practice is the trading name of Treework Services Ltd.
Registered Office & Place of Registration: Treework Services Ltd, Monarch 
House, 1-7 Smyth Road,
Bedminster, Bristol, BS3 2BX
 
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-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info <uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> 
On Behalf Of Jim Quaife
Sent: 27 November 2019 15:19
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: RE: Poll v Bartholomew [2006]

The AA does have a pamphlet on Arboricultural qualifications.
I agree that an appropriate level of technical ability is important, but so 
is experience.
I know, I know, one has to gain experience, and everyone has to start 
somewhere, but ideally "fresh" surveyors should be supervised and 
"calibrated".
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info 
[mailto:uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info] On Behalf Of Sean Davies
Sent: 27 November 2019 14:57
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: RE: Poll v Bartholomew [2006]

I seem to recall this actually refers to a publication from the Arb 
association which includes a lot of qualifications, not sure if it's still 
published.

Sean Davies

Arboreal officer

Neighbourhood Services

T: 01623 XXXXXX

E: sdavies@xxxxxxxxxx.gov.uk



Mansfield District Council

Hermitage Lane Depot,

Maunside,

Mansfield,

Nottingham.

NG18 5GU



-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info <uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> 
On Behalf Of Matt Searle
Sent: 27 November 2019 14:26
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: DMARC violation -Poll v Bartholomew [2006]

Hi all,

I know the above case and its implications has been discussed on this forum 
on numerous occasions.

I have a relatively simple question (I think?). The case discussed what level 
of inspector is deemed 'competent' The judgement refers to a 'Level 2 
inspector' (as opposed to a level 1, with no qualifications or experience to 
a level 3, with higher qualifications and/or experience). Do we know what a 
Level 2 inspector means in relation to the National Qualification 
Framework/ABC etc. Is it a level 2, 3 or other? A National Diploma in Arb for 
example is, I believe a level 3 (ABC), the Teach Cert, now a 4 (ABC).

Thanks

Matt


Matt Searle Bsc (Hons) MRTPI, MICFor
Principal Arboricultural Consultant
[cid:image001.jpg@01D588C9.3773AEF0]
Treework Environmental Practice
Winner of Trees & Development Award 2018
Mobile: 07903 XXXXXX
Head Office:  0117 XXX XXXX
Southeast: 020 7XXX XXXX
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Treework Environmental Practice is the trading name of Treework Services Ltd.
Registered Office & Place of Registration: Treework Services Ltd, Monarch 
House, 1-7 Smyth Road, Bedminster, Bristol, BS3 2BX

Reg No.: 1621606
VAT No.: 397 XXXX XX

This email including attachments is intended for the addressed recipient 
only.  It may contain confidential information and may be subject to legal, 
professional or other privilege.
It must not be copied, disclosed or used by any other person.  If you are not 
the intended recipient, please notify the sender and then delete from your 
system immediately.

Treework Environmental Practice does not guarantee the attachments or 
enclosures are secure or virus-free.





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