UKTC Archive

Re: Poll v Bartholomew [2006]

Subject: Re: Poll v Bartholomew [2006]
From: Bill Anderson
Date: Nov 27 2019 19:59:19
NAtional Diploma in Arb Wayne?
I've lost track but try here:
https://www.trees.org.uk/Help-Advice/Public/Qualifications-and-other-initials


If something says level 6 then that's a degree equivalent I think. There
have been (in the past) some wrangling between various examining bodies, so
don't assume that all "national diplomas" are equal. Mind you I'm no longer
fully sure about degrees, the yoga teacher down the road from here claims
to have a degree in yoga; go figure, as the (not so) young people might
say.

Bill.

On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 at 19:45, Bill Anderson <anderson.arb.original@xxxxxx.com>
wrote:

I fairly regularly recommend people to undertake doing something sooner
rather than later because the task is only going to get more
difficult/expensive, which I believe is pragmatic. Clearly Jim's client
didn't take the advice and plenty of mine don't either. Does it ever cost
them more money than it might have done? I dunno.
As to the Poll case, I happened to be regularly travelling around that bit
of the country (Dorset, Wiltshire) about the time of the incident and
recall being somewhat surprised by the amount of dead Elm in the hedgerows,
and the amount of coppice growth in the hedgerows that I'd have been
inclined to cut. My interpretation of the tree that caused Mr Poll's
accident is that it was Ash coppice growth that ought to have been cut. You
didn't need to stop the car to make that recommendation. I don't recall the
state of Mr Bartholomew's hedgerows being brought up in the case, but I
thought at the time that had the tree been re-coppiced Mr Poll might still
be commuting on his motorcycle. It wouldn't need a level 3 inspector to
make that recommendation.
(We've got stacks of dead hedgerow Elm round here now, but back in the
late nineties/early noughties the West Country surprised me.)
Bill.
PS Not sure this is pertinent to your query Matt, sorry.

On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 at 16:32, Jim Quaife <jq@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk>
wrote:

I looked into the Poll case in some detail and others had provided a
transcript of the verbatim court proceedings to me, and this is not the
forum to indulge in analysis.  However, it is fair to say that NTSG (which
was prompted in part by Poll) does refer to three levels of inspection and
who might be appropriate to carry them out, but without references to any
particular qualifications.
The issue of tree risk is driven by insurance (and I am in no way
discounting genuine concern and responsibility) and the problem is that
tree failure stats have no statistical significance.  We have absolutely no
idea whether our surveys/inspections have ever prevented an incident, apart
from cases where a tree is an obvious imminent risk.  We might feel that it
is right to remove a suspect branch threatening a non-static space, and it
will be a prudent and defensible action, but we have no way of knowing
whether had it failed it would have caused an incident.
We had what I believe is a very rare experience when a colleague had
recommended that two large "weary" hybrid black pops should be felled - not
because they were next to a bridleway and constituted a danger but because
felling them deliberately would be less inconvenient and cheaper than
allowing them to fall and block the path.  Three and a half years later at
the next survey they had fallen over but conveniently only a couple of
branches had crossed the path and had been cleared.
Not very startling, until one realises that a prediction actually
happened within the anticipated timescale.  How often does that happen set
against the number of trees surveyed?
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info [mailto:
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info] On Behalf Of Matt Searle
Sent: 27 November 2019 16:11
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: RE: Poll v Bartholomew [2006]

Thanks for responding Jim. I've seen the AAs leaflet. It works for
current qualifications, but doesn’t really help when considering the level
of historical qualifications. I agree with your point about experience (as
well as training and qualifications).

Matt

Matt Searle Bsc (Hons) MRTPI, MICFor
Principal Arboricultural Consultant

Treework Environmental Practice
Winner of Trees & Development Award 2018
Mobile: 07903 XXXXXX
Head Office:  0117 XXX XXXX
Southeast: 020 7XXX XXXX
www.treeworks.co.uk


Treework Environmental Practice is the trading name of Treework Services
Ltd.
Registered Office & Place of Registration: Treework Services Ltd, Monarch
House, 1-7 Smyth Road,
Bedminster, Bristol, BS3 2BX

Reg No.: 1621606
VAT No.: 397 XXXX XX

This email including attachments is intended for the addressed recipient
only.  It may contain confidential information and may be subject to legal,
professional or other privilege.
It must not be copied, disclosed or used by any other person.  If you are
not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and then delete from
your system immediately.

Treework Environmental Practice does not guarantee the attachments or
enclosures are secure or virus-free.


-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info <
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> On Behalf Of Jim Quaife
Sent: 27 November 2019 15:19
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: RE: Poll v Bartholomew [2006]

The AA does have a pamphlet on Arboricultural qualifications.
I agree that an appropriate level of technical ability is important, but
so is experience.
I know, I know, one has to gain experience, and everyone has to start
somewhere, but ideally "fresh" surveyors should be supervised and
"calibrated".
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info [mailto:
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info] On Behalf Of Sean Davies
Sent: 27 November 2019 14:57
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: RE: Poll v Bartholomew [2006]

I seem to recall this actually refers to a publication from the Arb
association which includes a lot of qualifications, not sure if it's still
published.

Sean Davies

Arboreal officer

Neighbourhood Services

T: 01623 XXXXXX

E: sdavies@xxxxxxxxxx.gov.uk



Mansfield District Council

Hermitage Lane Depot,

Maunside,

Mansfield,

Nottingham.

NG18 5GU



-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info <
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> On Behalf Of Matt Searle
Sent: 27 November 2019 14:26
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: DMARC violation -Poll v Bartholomew [2006]

Hi all,

I know the above case and its implications has been discussed on this
forum on numerous occasions.

I have a relatively simple question (I think?). The case discussed what
level of inspector is deemed 'competent' The judgement refers to a 'Level 2
inspector' (as opposed to a level 1, with no qualifications or experience
to a level 3, with higher qualifications and/or experience). Do we know
what a Level 2 inspector means in relation to the National Qualification
Framework/ABC etc. Is it a level 2, 3 or other? A National Diploma in Arb
for example is, I believe a level 3 (ABC), the Teach Cert, now a 4 (ABC).

Thanks

Matt


Matt Searle Bsc (Hons) MRTPI, MICFor
Principal Arboricultural Consultant
[cid:image001.jpg@01D588C9.3773AEF0]
Treework Environmental Practice
Winner of Trees & Development Award 2018
Mobile: 07903 XXXXXX
Head Office:  0117 XXX XXXX
Southeast: 020 7XXX XXXX

https://hes32-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=www.treeworks.co.uk&umid=9364ff61-d9ff-4a23-802d-96e4f9532209&auth=4be54ad6eb25a559550d8aaef741acb68187dbb5-56334adae07ee16b2b9930d72e3847294dcf74cc
<
https://hes32-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.treeworks.co.uk&umid=9364ff61-d9ff-4a23-802d-96e4f9532209&auth=4be54ad6eb25a559550d8aaef741acb68187dbb5-42dfeb2bcaa753b9e58620c522c6b363068c6c98

[Email banner]<
https://hes32-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.treeworks.co.uk%2flibrary&umid=9364ff61-d9ff-4a23-802d-96e4f9532209&auth=4be54ad6eb25a559550d8aaef741acb68187dbb5-066b866e6688d922cd7d6657d402a7a90a42d3ac



Treework Environmental Practice is the trading name of Treework Services
Ltd.
Registered Office & Place of Registration: Treework Services Ltd, Monarch
House, 1-7 Smyth Road, Bedminster, Bristol, BS3 2BX

Reg No.: 1621606
VAT No.: 397 XXXX XX

This email including attachments is intended for the addressed recipient
only.  It may contain confidential information and may be subject to legal,
professional or other privilege.
It must not be copied, disclosed or used by any other person.  If you are
not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and then delete from
your system immediately.

Treework Environmental Practice does not guarantee the attachments or
enclosures are secure or virus-free.





--
The UK Tree Care mailing list
To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy

https://hes32-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.boskytrees.co.uk&umid=9364ff61-d9ff-4a23-802d-96e4f9532209&auth=4be54ad6eb25a559550d8aaef741acb68187dbb5-4c66700ef201a4f8efd54f57df2c4ec33453a7a8
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the
sender.
[http://www.mansfield.gov.uk/images/PortalEmailFooter.png]<
https://portal.mansfield.gov.uk>



--
The UK Tree Care mailing list
To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy
http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/



--
The UK Tree Care mailing list
To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy
http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/



--
The UK Tree Care mailing list
To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy
http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/



--
The UK Tree Care mailing list
To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy
http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/





-- 
The UK Tree Care mailing list
To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy
http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/