UKTC Archive

RE: Implementing a Two-Ropes System - HSE Requirement?

Subject: RE: Implementing a Two-Ropes System - HSE Requirement?
From: Steve
Date: Dec 03 2019 12:41:52
Work positioning with secondary anchor point should and would be practice for 
all professional climbers; not 2 ropes. Secondary anchor for work positioning 
should in my opinion be with  steel reinforced strops less chance of cutting 
through. What next steel reinforced ropes. I still remember when the HSE 
stated in a meeting we had with them re the proposed banning of top handled 
chainsaws and fall arrest systems that what we did as an industry was 
dangerous and therefore we shouldn’t do it. Fortunately Jack Kenyon was able 
to illustrate that fall arrest systems were not practical and would not 
improve safety and top handled chainsaws, if used correctly, were no more 
dangerous than back handled saws.

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info 
[mailto:uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info] On Behalf Of Brewster, Ian
Sent: 03 December 2019 12:19
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: RE: Implementing a Two-Ropes System - HSE Requirement?

The two anchor way of climbing/work positioning is part of the old nptc39 and 
the assessor would fail you if not adopting this practice.
The two anchor way of climbing/work positioning is part of the old nptc39 and 
the assessor would fail you if not adopting this practice.

From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info <uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> 
On Behalf Of Steve
Sent: 03 December 2019 11:58
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: RE: Implementing a Two-Ropes System - HSE Requirement?

Let's be honest this is a totally unjustifiable interference by people that 
are at best uniformed and at worst have a vested interest in additional 
training modules! Where is the evidence to justify this?

-----Original Message-----
From: 
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info<mailto:uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> 
[mailto:uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info] On Behalf Of Paul Smith
Sent: 03 December 2019 11:06
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: RE: Implementing a Two-Ropes System - HSE Requirement?

Hi Paul, the "£60 million dollar question" just now.

Acknowledging you are asking here, on UKTC, but if you asked the regulator 
(the HSE) they would say the 'immediate implications' are those they’ve been 
expecting us to have been working to since 2005, i.e. 2 rope with 2 
independent anchors...in practice the exception rather than the rule.

Further information will follow shortly in relation to the amended / updated 
ICoP, and Technical Guide 1, firstly to industry consultation before 
production and then to be incorporated in updated working practices and 
training / assessment procedures etc.

For now "watch this space", i.e. the AA website, and be thinking about 
opportunities to move to 2-rope working where it will not hinder nor increase 
the risk of working / tree climbing activities, particularly at points of 
deemed higher risk, e.g. on access / on change-overs / using tools etc. Also 
be thinking about updating risk assessments and incorporating the 2-rope 
hierarchy etc. and associated justifications.

Hoping this helps, at least a little.
Regards,
PAUL



Paul Smith
Technical Officer &
Accreditation Schemes Manager (Contractors)
Email: paul@xxxxxx.org.uk<mailto:paul@xxxxxx.org.uk>




















Registered Office
The Malthouse, Stroud Green, Standish,
Stonehouse, Gloucestershire, GL10 3DL
Arboricultural Association Ltd
Company No. 4070377, Charity Number 1083845 Arboricultural Association 
Trading Ltd Company No. 05180170

Switch to Ecosia – the Search Engine that plants trees!

-----Original Message-----
From: 
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info<mailto:uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> 
<uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info<mailto:uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>>
 On Behalf Of PC
Sent: 03 December 2019 10:49
To: UK Tree Care 
<uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info<mailto:uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>>
Subject: Implementing a Two-Ropes System - HSE Requirement?

Morning all,

Is anybody aware of the immediate implications for climbing Arborists and 
managers in relation to the web-link below:

https://www.trees.org.uk/News-Blog/Latest-News/Two-rope-working-–-an-update<https://www.trees.org.uk/News-Blog/Latest-News/Two-rope-working-–-an-update>

Thanks,

Paul




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To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy 
http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/<http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/>



--
The UK Tree Care mailing list
To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy 
http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/<http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/>




--
The UK Tree Care mailing list
To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy 
http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/<http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/>
NPS
 From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info 
<uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> On Behalf Of Steve
Sent: 03 December 2019 11:58
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: RE: Implementing a Two-Ropes System - HSE Requirement?

Let's be honest this is a totally unjustifiable interference by people that 
are at best uniformed and at worst have a vested interest in additional 
training modules! Where is the evidence to justify this?

-----Original Message-----
From: 
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info<mailto:uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> 
[mailto:uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info] On Behalf Of Paul Smith
Sent: 03 December 2019 11:06
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: RE: Implementing a Two-Ropes System - HSE Requirement?

Hi Paul, the "£60 million dollar question" just now.

Acknowledging you are asking here, on UKTC, but if you asked the regulator 
(the HSE) they would say the 'immediate implications' are those they’ve been 
expecting us to have been working to since 2005, i.e. 2 rope with 2 
independent anchors...in practice the exception rather than the rule.

Further information will follow shortly in relation to the amended / updated 
ICoP, and Technical Guide 1, firstly to industry consultation before 
production and then to be incorporated in updated working practices and 
training / assessment procedures etc.

For now "watch this space", i.e. the AA website, and be thinking about 
opportunities to move to 2-rope working where it will not hinder nor increase 
the risk of working / tree climbing activities, particularly at points of 
deemed higher risk, e.g. on access / on change-overs / using tools etc. Also 
be thinking about updating risk assessments and incorporating the 2-rope 
hierarchy etc. and associated justifications.

Hoping this helps, at least a little.
Regards,
PAUL



Paul Smith
Technical Officer &
Accreditation Schemes Manager (Contractors)
Email: paul@xxxxxx.org.uk<mailto:paul@xxxxxx.org.uk>




















Registered Office
The Malthouse, Stroud Green, Standish,
Stonehouse, Gloucestershire, GL10 3DL
Arboricultural Association Ltd
Company No. 4070377, Charity Number 1083845 Arboricultural Association 
Trading Ltd Company No. 05180170

Switch to Ecosia – the Search Engine that plants trees!

-----Original Message-----
From: 
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info<mailto:uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> 
<uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info<mailto:uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>>
 On Behalf Of PC
Sent: 03 December 2019 10:49
To: UK Tree Care 
<uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info<mailto:uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>>
Subject: Implementing a Two-Ropes System - HSE Requirement?

Morning all,

Is anybody aware of the immediate implications for climbing Arborists and 
managers in relation to the web-link below:

https://www.trees.org.uk/News-Blog/Latest-News/Two-rope-working-–-an-update<https://www.trees.org.uk/News-Blog/Latest-News/Two-rope-working-–-an-update>

Thanks,

Paul




--
The UK Tree Care mailing list
To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy 
http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/<http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/>



--
The UK Tree Care mailing list
To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy 
http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/<http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/>




--
The UK Tree Care mailing list
To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy 
http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/<http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/>



--
The UK Tree Care mailing list
To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy 
http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/




-- 
The UK Tree Care mailing list
To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy
http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/