UKTC Archive

RE: 2 rope access prompting?

Subject: RE: 2 rope access prompting?
From: Alastair Durkin
Date: Jan 06 2020 15:29:38
So do we lobby for tighter regulation Bill? Make it an offence to undertake 
tree work without some sort of certification akin to GasSafe? One assumes 
that the building industry has exactly the same issues and then some, but the 
Govt hasn't done anything about that. The difference being that much of the 
time you need to get your building Regs certificate at the end of the job, so 
you can't afford to employ total donuts. 


-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info <uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> 
On Behalf Of Bill Anderson
Sent: 06 January 2020 15:19
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: Re: 2 rope access prompting?

Hi Rupert,
Yes miserable northern git enjoys miserable-ist drams from the even more 
north, dark and frozen bits of Europe; who'd have guessed?
That aside I'm sufficiently detached from climbing trees these days to be not 
paying too much attention, but not so detached that I can't see the problems 
the HSE are creating for our industry. It's only a couple of steps from the 
HSE outlawing the ownership of big trees via the back door: "we're banning 
working at height above 15 metres so this means that we're no longer 
permitting people to grow trees taller than 16 metres..."
Also the time when I could keep an old rope and harness in the boot just so I 
could have a look at something out of reach or take off a minor branch that 
wasn't worth getting the crew back for, have long gone. The kit wouldn't pass 
the LOLER inspection after a couple of years and anyway where's your rescue 
climber?
I had to complain at the crew last week; I was giving them a hand carrying 
kit from the truck to the job (before I left them to it, gotta show a bit of 
willing) and could only just get one of the bags of climbing kit off the 
ground! Gawdalone knows what he'd got in there, but it was a sight more than 
the rope, couple of krabs and couple of slings I used to make do with.
Is all this going to drive work into the hands of the fly-by-seat-of-pants 
outfits. I'd say that in a lot of cases, particularly domestic jobs, it's 
bound to. Will this increase or decrease injuries/fatalities? I dunno.
All the best.
Bill.


On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 at 13:29, Rupert Baker <rupert_baker@xxxxxxxx.co.uk>
wrote:

Quite a good prog, that Wisting, Bill - though the title sounds a bit 
like some arcane rural practice - 'Ooh Ah, Jim boy, ave ee been 
wisting down the coombe again?'
Is there a kind of auto- that allows a rope to run through it? Most 
rope-access ones have a finite length - the longest appears to be 
about 20m
- too short for our uses.
I am really not looking forward to all this 2-rope access stuff for 
myself; the possibilities of confusing which is which; the extra 
weight of ropes and friction devices/prussiks; the extra time needed 
to place the systems into the tree whether by throw-line or ladder etc 
all fill me with disquiet, though I'll probably get used to it in 
time; and from a consulting/client point of view, it is inevitably 
going to end up with higher costs for tree work by contractors using 
such systems, to absorb the extra equipment and time costs; it will 
also make pukka tree surgery firms who obey the rules less cost 
effective than ones who ignore them...
Mind you it'll be jam for the equipment suppliers and the trainers ; ) 
Atb Rupert

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info On Behalf Of Bill Anderson
Sent: 06 January 2020 10:19
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: Re: 2 rope access prompting?

From outside of the box; Paul, has anybody considered these auto-belay 
devices that climbing walls use nowadays? (
https://headrushtech.com/about/technology.html)
This occurred to me while a watching a Scandi-noir drama on the TV 
over the weekend, wherein someone being lowered down a well had not 
only their access rope but an auto-belay attached to the back of the 
harness.
Bill.


On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 at 08:12, Paul Smith <paul@xxxxxx.org.uk> wrote:

Apologies 'again' David.

Some details of the accidents to which the HSE refer were available 
on the previous weblink to the AA website. The HSE have, apparently, 
prepared more detailed information for a recent AFAG meeting and 
this should come to our attention shortly when we will publish on the 
website.

Regards


Paul Smith
Technical Officer &
Accreditation Schemes Manager (Contractors)






















Registered Office
The Malthouse, Stroud Green, Standish, Stonehouse, Gloucestershire,
GL10 3DL Arboricultural Association Ltd Company No. 4070377, Charity 
Number 1083845 Arboricultural Association Trading Ltd Company No.
05180170

Switch to Ecosia – the Search Engine that plants trees!

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info 
<uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
On Behalf Of dlj@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.com
Sent: 02 January 2020 14:31
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: Re: 2 rope access prompting?

Hi again Paul

It says ... "The HSE has consistently argued that, despite the good 
practice guidance that we have been working with for the last 15 
years, the number of accidents in our sector remains unacceptably 
high – indeed, it states that the arboricultural sector has the 
highest accident rate per capita of all UK industries. Clearly this 
is something we would all wish to change."

Can you point me to these specific accident statistics over the 15 
years mentioned please?

David

On 2020-01-02 09:45, Paul Smith wrote:
Maybe, but many systems are being considered / developed / 
reviewed on another forum.


Paul Smith
Technical Officer &
Accreditation Schemes Manager (Contractors)

Arboricultural Association
The Malthouse, Stroud Green, Standish, Stonehouse, 
Gloucestershire,
GL10 3DL, UK Tel +44 (0) 1242 XXXXXX Mob +44 (0)7971 XXXXXX
Email: paul@xxxxxx.org.uk
www.trees.org.uk





















Registered Office
The Malthouse, Stroud Green, Standish, Stonehouse, 
Gloucestershire,
GL10 3DL Arboricultural Association Ltd Company No. 4070377, 
Charity Number 1083845 Arboricultural Association Trading Ltd Company 
No.
05180170

Switch to Ecosia – the Search Engine that plants trees!

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info 
<uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> On Behalf Of Sean Davies
Sent: 02 January 2020 09:43
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: RE: 2 rope access prompting?

Are we just talking an auto belay? or something more complex?

Sean Davies

Arboreal officer

Neighbourhood Services

T: 01623 XXXXXX

E: sdavies@xxxxxxxxxx.gov.uk



Mansfield District Council

Hermitage Lane Depot,

Maunside,

Mansfield,

Nottingham.

NG18 5GU



-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info 
<uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> On Behalf Of Paul Smith
Sent: 02 January 2020 09:35
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: DMARC violation -RE: 2 rope access prompting?

Hi David, the latter, i.e. specific accidents, see 
https://hes32-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=ht
tp
s%
3a%2f%2fwww.trees.org.uk%2fHelp%2dAdvice%2fPublic%2fHSE%2dDecision
%2
do
n%2dTwo%2dRope%2dWorking&umid=8c731305-99cd-4958-af52-b472912eea8d
&a
ut
h=4be54ad6eb25a559550d8aaef741acb68187dbb5-411613f6d57e6723e2010bc
24
18
7ecd5f023b316

Regards

Paul Smith
Technical Officer &
Accreditation Schemes Manager (Contractors)




















Registered Office
The Malthouse, Stroud Green, Standish, Stonehouse, 
Gloucestershire,
GL10 3DL Arboricultural Association Ltd Company No. 4070377, 
Charity Number 1083845 Arboricultural Association Trading Ltd Company 
No.
05180170

Switch to Ecosia – the Search Engine that plants trees!

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info 
<uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> On Behalf Of 
dlj@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.com
Sent: 31 December 2019 13:17
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: 2 rope access prompting?

Just saw a posting about this.......

"This is an interesting time in the world of Arboriculture. With 
the HSE now insistent on the use of two-rope working, industry 
professionals are working hard to devise systems to maintain 
compliance."

Does anybody know if this is just a development out of idealogical 
principle, or has it been provoked by specific accidents or 
broader accident statistics ?

David




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