UKTC Archive

Re: 2 rope access prompting?

Subject: Re: 2 rope access prompting?
From: Bill Anderson
Date: Jan 06 2020 15:48:03
I haven't a clue Alastair. GasSafe hasn't stopped me changing my boiler's
thermocouple, and I'm inclined to think that legislation is likely to
achieve the opposite of what we want or need.
Educating the public at large is what's needed, although plenty of the
public seem to think that writing on the side of a van illustrates
qualifications and experience. And while some people I come across are keen
to ensure that they don't end up with a dead arborist at the foot of their
tree, others are only concerned with the financial bottom line. Perhaps
prosecuting a few tree owners when their contractors are prosecuted for H&S
infringements would help, although I can't imagine the Daily Mail failing
to howl if that ever happened.
As for building regs certificates, not all tree work is on development
sites, and have you ever seen such things refused for poor tree work
standards? I'd be delighted if you had.
Bill.
PS Last year I tried to get an LPA to prosecute a tree owner for their
contractor failing to work to BS3998, they'd made a right pig's ear of a
row of trees that I pass everyday. You can probably guess how that went....

On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 at 15:29, Alastair Durkin <ADurkin@xxxxxxxxxx.gov.uk>
wrote:

So do we lobby for tighter regulation Bill? Make it an offence to
undertake tree work without some sort of certification akin to GasSafe? One
assumes that the building industry has exactly the same issues and then
some, but the Govt hasn't done anything about that. The difference being
that much of the time you need to get your building Regs certificate at the
end of the job, so you can't afford to employ total donuts.


-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info 
<uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
On Behalf Of Bill Anderson
Sent: 06 January 2020 15:19
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: Re: 2 rope access prompting?

Hi Rupert,
Yes miserable northern git enjoys miserable-ist drams from the even more
north, dark and frozen bits of Europe; who'd have guessed?
That aside I'm sufficiently detached from climbing trees these days to be
not paying too much attention, but not so detached that I can't see the
problems the HSE are creating for our industry. It's only a couple of steps
from the HSE outlawing the ownership of big trees via the back door: "we're
banning working at height above 15 metres so this means that we're no
longer permitting people to grow trees taller than 16 metres..."
Also the time when I could keep an old rope and harness in the boot just
so I could have a look at something out of reach or take off a minor branch
that wasn't worth getting the crew back for, have long gone. The kit
wouldn't pass the LOLER inspection after a couple of years and anyway
where's your rescue climber?
I had to complain at the crew last week; I was giving them a hand carrying
kit from the truck to the job (before I left them to it, gotta show a bit
of willing) and could only just get one of the bags of climbing kit off the
ground! Gawdalone knows what he'd got in there, but it was a sight more
than the rope, couple of krabs and couple of slings I used to make do with.
Is all this going to drive work into the hands of the fly-by-seat-of-pants
outfits. I'd say that in a lot of cases, particularly domestic jobs, it's
bound to. Will this increase or decrease injuries/fatalities? I dunno.
All the best.
Bill.


On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 at 13:29, Rupert Baker <rupert_baker@xxxxxxxx.co.uk>
wrote:

Quite a good prog, that Wisting, Bill - though the title sounds a bit
like some arcane rural practice - 'Ooh Ah, Jim boy, ave ee been
wisting down the coombe again?'
Is there a kind of auto- that allows a rope to run through it? Most
rope-access ones have a finite length - the longest appears to be
about 20m
- too short for our uses.
I am really not looking forward to all this 2-rope access stuff for
myself; the possibilities of confusing which is which; the extra
weight of ropes and friction devices/prussiks; the extra time needed
to place the systems into the tree whether by throw-line or ladder etc
all fill me with disquiet, though I'll probably get used to it in
time; and from a consulting/client point of view, it is inevitably
going to end up with higher costs for tree work by contractors using
such systems, to absorb the extra equipment and time costs; it will
also make pukka tree surgery firms who obey the rules less cost
effective than ones who ignore them...
Mind you it'll be jam for the equipment suppliers and the trainers ; )
Atb Rupert

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info On Behalf Of Bill Anderson
Sent: 06 January 2020 10:19
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: Re: 2 rope access prompting?

From outside of the box; Paul, has anybody considered these auto-belay
devices that climbing walls use nowadays? (
https://headrushtech.com/about/technology.html)
This occurred to me while a watching a Scandi-noir drama on the TV
over the weekend, wherein someone being lowered down a well had not
only their access rope but an auto-belay attached to the back of the
harness.
Bill.


On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 at 08:12, Paul Smith <paul@xxxxxx.org.uk> wrote:

Apologies 'again' David.

Some details of the accidents to which the HSE refer were available
on the previous weblink to the AA website. The HSE have, apparently,
prepared more detailed information for a recent AFAG meeting and
this should come to our attention shortly when we will publish on the
website.

Regards


Paul Smith
Technical Officer &
Accreditation Schemes Manager (Contractors)






















Registered Office
The Malthouse, Stroud Green, Standish, Stonehouse, Gloucestershire,
GL10 3DL Arboricultural Association Ltd Company No. 4070377, Charity
Number 1083845 Arboricultural Association Trading Ltd Company No.
05180170

Switch to Ecosia – the Search Engine that plants trees!

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info
<uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
On Behalf Of dlj@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.com
Sent: 02 January 2020 14:31
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: Re: 2 rope access prompting?

Hi again Paul

It says ... "The HSE has consistently argued that, despite the good
practice guidance that we have been working with for the last 15
years, the number of accidents in our sector remains unacceptably
high – indeed, it states that the arboricultural sector has the
highest accident rate per capita of all UK industries. Clearly this
is something we would all wish to change."

Can you point me to these specific accident statistics over the 15
years mentioned please?

David

On 2020-01-02 09:45, Paul Smith wrote:
Maybe, but many systems are being considered / developed /
reviewed on another forum.


Paul Smith
Technical Officer &
Accreditation Schemes Manager (Contractors)

Arboricultural Association
The Malthouse, Stroud Green, Standish, Stonehouse,
Gloucestershire,
GL10 3DL, UK Tel +44 (0) 1242 XXXXXX Mob +44 (0)7971 XXXXXX
Email: paul@xxxxxx.org.uk
www.trees.org.uk





















Registered Office
The Malthouse, Stroud Green, Standish, Stonehouse,
Gloucestershire,
GL10 3DL Arboricultural Association Ltd Company No. 4070377,
Charity Number 1083845 Arboricultural Association Trading Ltd
Company No.
05180170

Switch to Ecosia – the Search Engine that plants trees!

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info
<uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> On Behalf Of Sean Davies
Sent: 02 January 2020 09:43
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: RE: 2 rope access prompting?

Are we just talking an auto belay? or something more complex?

Sean Davies

Arboreal officer

Neighbourhood Services

T: 01623 XXXXXX

E: sdavies@xxxxxxxxxx.gov.uk



Mansfield District Council

Hermitage Lane Depot,

Maunside,

Mansfield,

Nottingham.

NG18 5GU



-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info
<uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> On Behalf Of Paul Smith
Sent: 02 January 2020 09:35
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: DMARC violation -RE: 2 rope access prompting?

Hi David, the latter, i.e. specific accidents, see
https://hes32-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=ht
tp
s%
3a%2f%2fwww.trees.org.uk%2fHelp%2dAdvice%2fPublic%2fHSE%2dDecision
%2
do
n%2dTwo%2dRope%2dWorking&umid=8c731305-99cd-4958-af52-b472912eea8d
&a
ut
h=4be54ad6eb25a559550d8aaef741acb68187dbb5-411613f6d57e6723e2010bc
24
18
7ecd5f023b316

Regards

Paul Smith
Technical Officer &
Accreditation Schemes Manager (Contractors)




















Registered Office
The Malthouse, Stroud Green, Standish, Stonehouse,
Gloucestershire,
GL10 3DL Arboricultural Association Ltd Company No. 4070377,
Charity Number 1083845 Arboricultural Association Trading Ltd
Company No.
05180170

Switch to Ecosia – the Search Engine that plants trees!

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info
<uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> On Behalf Of
dlj@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.com
Sent: 31 December 2019 13:17
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: 2 rope access prompting?

Just saw a posting about this.......

"This is an interesting time in the world of Arboriculture. With
the HSE now insistent on the use of two-rope working, industry
professionals are working hard to devise systems to maintain
compliance."

Does anybody know if this is just a development out of idealogical
principle, or has it been provoked by specific accidents or
broader accident statistics ?

David




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