UKTC Archive

RE: [EXTERNAL] Tree failure potential assessment study WAS Civil cases for nuisance or damage to property

Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Tree failure potential assessment study WAS Civil cases for nuisance or damage to property
From: Harrison, Sean
Date: Jan 16 2020 10:17:00
Oh crumbs, that'll teach me to put my fingers on my keyboard!


-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info <uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> 
On Behalf Of Wayne Tyson
Sent: 15 January 2020 18:31
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Tree failure potential assessment study WAS Civil 
cases for nuisance or damage to property

Hi Sean,

I'd like to hear/read some further comment from you on "nature's design."

All the best,
Wayne

On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 7:31 AM Harrison, Sean < 
Sean.Harrison@xxxxxxxxxxx.gov.uk> wrote:

Hi Jim,
Thanks for that and I agree with most of what you say. However, I do
disagree with your point " By and large root systems are over-designed
in nature".
Nothing in nature is 'over-designed'. We, however, make judgements
about nature's design and we often make the mistake that because we
can't see a purpose a purpose can't exist; but there will be a reason
(way beyond our understanding and our five paltry senses) as to why a
thing is the way it is.

All the best
Sean

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info
<uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
On Behalf Of Jim Quaife
Sent: 14 January 2020 19:50
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Tree failure potential assessment study WAS
Civil cases for nuisance or damage to property

Nice idea Wayne, but no chance of enactment. By and large root systems
are over-designed in nature, and root severance is a matter of
judgement and not law.  BS5837 advocates the removal of perhaps
two-thirds of a tree's root system. There are any number of instances
where roots have been severed to an extent that raises eyebrows and
yet the tree doesn't miss a beat.
Of course there are converse examples, but I have been in situations
where a single root is deemed to be important and when one looks at
what else is sustaining the tree, that notion is frankly ridiculous.
Like everything else to do with trees, root severance is a matter of
judgement and justification.  This is an arb's stock in trade!
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info [mailto:
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info] On Behalf Of Wayne Tyson
Sent: 14 January 2020 18:38
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Tree failure potential assessment study WAS
Civil cases for nuisance or damage to property

The main "practical" point is that there should be a law prohibiting
the severance of tree roots. Of course, we all know that's not going
to happen, but it should be done with full knowledge of the
consequences, and under permit that requires real data on the
potential consequences (including
liability) derived from sound scientific procedures (e.g., tritium
tracing or approved equal [For the record, I have not performed this
procedure, only read about it.]). What is not well understood is the
complex nature of the radial root system development in all directions
from the stem/trunk in relation to tree health and structural
stability. What really provides resistance to toppling/uprooting is
the fine-root matrix that extends to and beyond the "drip-line" of the
tree and whether or not meristematic tissue is present to facilitate
"recovery" of the severed roots, which is limited to fine roots.
Anchoring roots tend, in many if not most species, to lack such
tissue, and their severance kills the attached finer roots that
actually provide the resistance. Big roots lacking the capacity to recover 
do not, by themselves, provide much resistance--root "pruners,"
listen up! Loss of resistance is essentially permanent, and the load
continues to increase as the tree grows. At the very least, such a
practice does not increase resistance (root-system "strength").

Here is a link of relevance I recently discovered by one of our (US)
best arborists. It should be noted that while it may be an absurdly
extreme case, tree failure potential can be significantly induced by far 
less.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFqU2kBlxkI

WT

On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 4:33 AM Harrison, Sean <
Sean.Harrison@xxxxxxxxxxx.gov.uk> wrote:

Nice one Wayne;
I shall use that next time an insurance company wants a 200 year old
tree removed because roots are damaging the foundations of a 70 year
old
house.
Sean



-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info
<uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
On Behalf Of Wayne Tyson
Sent: 11 January 2020 22:40
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Tree failure potential assessment study WAS
Civil cases for nuisance or damage to property

Warning: email from outside of MVDC - if in any doubt do not open
links or attachments, or carry out requested actions
________________________________


 Mike Charkow,

Somewhat tongue-in-cheek but (contrarily and seriously), I might
suggest that the construction of the fence and slab might have
caused damage and to the root system and compromised its integrity,
possibly compromising the tree's well-being and shortening the
tree's life, not to mention weakening the tree's ability to support
itself constitutionally and physically, as well as the slab
depriving the root system of air and water, thus causing the root
system to favor the part of the soil profile nearest the surface,
i.e., the slab as well as possible or probable damage to the root
system by the digging of fencepost pits, not to mention the
installation of underground
facilities such as foundations, utility facilities, etc.

On the other hand, the planting of a large-growing tree in a
location close to a property line by someone who knew or should have
known that it would encroach upon an adjacent property might also be 
questioned.
If the tree was natural, both owner and neighbor might be guilty (as
if there were any justice for Nature's voiceless) of  compromising
the tree's rights to the quiet enjoyment of its home and sustenance,
as well as expectations of freedom from injury.

I'll be interested to know (and get links to) any cases and judgments.
Do tree's have standing?

Wayne



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To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy
http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/ This MVDC email is only intended for the
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contain, either in the body of the email or attachment/s, information
that is personal, confidential and/or subject to copyright. If you are
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email, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in
error, please notify the sender immediately and then delete it.



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To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy
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The UK Tree Care mailing list
To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy 
http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/
This MVDC email is only intended for the individual or organisation to whom 
or which it is addressed and may contain, either in the body of the email or 
attachment/s, information that is personal, confidential and/or subject to 
copyright. If you are not the intended recipient, please note that copying or 
distributing this message, attachment/s or other files associated within this 
email, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, 
please notify the sender immediately and then delete it.



-- 
The UK Tree Care mailing list
To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy
http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/