UKTC Archive

Re: RE: RE: Watering trees during the establishment phase

Subject: Re: RE: RE: Watering trees during the establishment phase
From: Julian Morris
Date: Feb 11 2020 11:59:16
All of the factors that you have listed could be picked off one at a time by 
relatively simple methods.

The alternative is guessing and tree mortality, or unfeasible testing regimes.

Julian A. Morris - Professional Tree Services
jamtrees.co.uk  and  highhedgesscotland.com
0778 XXX XXXX - 0141 XXX XXXX


Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2020 at 11:54 AM
From: "Brewster, Ian" <Ian.Brewster@xxxxxxx.co.uk>
To: "UK Tree Care" <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: RE: RE: Watering trees during the establishment phase

The main issue here is the survival of young trees to successful 
establishment within our varied highway, park and urban landscape. The main 
concern is high percentage tree losses. As mentioned in 2018 we lost many 
due to the dry weather and insufficient frequency and volumes of water. If 
you water too much the tree will survive a temporary submergence.  but we 
know if too little water is applied then this will raise the mortality 
rate. So when applying a watering regime within a contract it has to be 
affordable, simple and easy to manage and monitor, were we can write 
20litres, 30litres or 40litres .... A generally accepted rule for most UK 
tree planters that has proven to work should in this instance be 
applicable, whether based on hort research/BS spec or experience. I dont 
see the value behind applying a specific calculation as each planting site, 
pit, soil and tree size/health will be different and change over the 
establishment period/season sun/rain...

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.



-------- Original message --------
From: Julian Morris <jamorris@xxxxx.com>
Date: 11/02/2020 11:25 (GMT+00:00)
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: Re: RE: Watering trees during the establishment phase

It's all interesting and useful debate, but this thread has become more 
about when do you know a tree needs watered and less about how much water 
it needs. Perhaps the fundamental question is just that, how much water do 
trees of various sizes need at establishment phase? And therefore, if the 
weather is dry and has been dry for so long that there's no residual water 
left in the soil, and watering is the only water a tree is getting, then 
the total water a tree needs equals the total watering it is to be given 
(after allowing for evaporation and the like). Isn't that the question? The 
criteria for when watering is needed are a different and more complex set 
of questions.

My instict is till tha the total water requirement should be broadly 
proportional to the cross sectional area of the stem, and that guidelines 
could be developed from that.

Here's the bit where most arbs switch off, the arithmetic. But it's simple. 
Cross sectional area is pi x radus squared. But we don't know the radius, , 
just the diameter or the girth. Blah blah blah, but when you do the maths 
it comes dow to this, wtaer requirement is proportional to teh squesre of 
the girt. All that's needed is a figure in litres (per week).

So, for example, say a tree with girth 20cm. Square that equals 400. 
Multiply that with the magic number, which seems to be about 0.2 (litres 
per week).

To repeat to show how easy it would be. Girth (in centimetres) x girth x 
0.2 is the weekly watering requirement in litres.

If that's too precise, a table such as Ben's could be drawn up for various 
girths.

As ever calculations are available on request. I'm doing that instead of 
putting them in this email because that's the only way I can tell if anyone 
cares to understand.

Julian A. Morris - Professional Tree Services
jamtrees.co.uk<http://jamtrees.co.uk> and 
highhedgesscotland.com<http://highhedgesscotland.com>
0778 XXX XXXX - 0141 XXX XXXX


Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2020 at 10:15 AM
From: "Jon Heuch" <jh@xxxxxxxx.co.uk>
To: "UK Tree Care" <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: RE: Watering trees during the establishment phase

I am afraid that attempting to define how much water a tree needs in 
writing
is prone to problems when the text is to cover all eventualities, 
including
idiots who may read the instructions and apply them to the letter.



This story does have some relevance, so persevere:



I remember a tale told of me in a live forest fire situation; the fire
needed to be put out ASAP, so the radio message went out "Send the bowser
to location X ASAP, emergency". The two staff members got into the bowser
and drove it like crazy to the fire. Great! Problem solved. Now put the 
fire
out! The hose was extended, the pump turned on, and a drizzle of water 
came
out of the hose for a few minutes. No water in the bowser! No one had told
them to fill the bowser with water. However, the instructions were 
followed!



So, in a fire season, resources are deployed according the severity of
conditions. Typically a fire index is calculated based on temperature, 
wind,
relative humidity and previous rainfall. A high index means every body is 
on
high alert; a low index means that everyone can stay in bed.



Watering trees has a similar feel. It's raining and has been raining for 
the
last week. You probably don't need to spend much time watering your newly
planted trees. If it's been 30 degrees C every day for the last week, and
the last time it rained was a month ago, you are probably going to spend
more time watering. You can make it simple - just water during summer 
months
& you may get waste & complacency (operators can cheat, get paid for doing
nothing); or you could be a bit more sophisticated and base your watering
regime on recent weather. MORECS might do the trick but the data costs.



Jon






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The UK Tree Care mailing list
To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy
http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/<http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/>





--
The UK Tree Care mailing list
To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy
http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/<http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/>
The main issue here is the survival of young trees to successful 
establishment within our varied highway, park and urban landscape. The main 
concern is high percentage tree losses. As mentioned in 2018 we lost many 
due to the dry weather and insufficient frequency and volumes of water. If 
you water too much the tree will survive a temporary submergence.  but we 
know if too little water is applied then this will raise the mortality 
rate. So when applying a watering regime within a contract it has to be 
affordable, simple and easy to manage and monitor, were we can write 
20litres, 30litres or 40litres .... A generally accepted rule for most UK 
tree planters that has proven to work should in this instance be 
applicable, whether based on hort research/BS spec or experience. I dont 
see the value behind applying a specific calculation as each planting site, 
pit, soil and tree size/health will be different and change over the 
establishment period/season sun/rain...

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.



-------- Original message --------
From: Julian Morris <jamorris@xxxxx.com>
Date: 11/02/2020 11:25 (GMT+00:00)
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: Re: RE: Watering trees during the establishment phase

It's all interesting and useful debate, but this thread has become more 
about when do you know a tree needs watered and less about how much water 
it needs. Perhaps the fundamental question is just that, how much water do 
trees of various sizes need at establishment phase? And therefore, if the 
weather is dry and has been dry for so long that there's no residual water 
left in the soil, and watering is the only water a tree is getting, then 
the total water a tree needs equals the total watering it is to be given 
(after allowing for evaporation and the like). Isn't that the question? The 
criteria for when watering is needed are a different and more complex set 
of questions.

My instict is till tha the total water requirement should be broadly 
proportional to the cross sectional area of the stem, and that guidelines 
could be developed from that.

Here's the bit where most arbs switch off, the arithmetic. But it's simple. 
Cross sectional area is pi x radus squared. But we don't know the radius, , 
just the diameter or the girth. Blah blah blah, but when you do the maths 
it comes dow to this, wtaer requirement is proportional to teh squesre of 
the girt. All that's needed is a figure in litres (per week).

So, for example, say a tree with girth 20cm. Square that equals 400. 
Multiply that with the magic number, which seems to be about 0.2 (litres 
per week).

To repeat to show how easy it would be. Girth (in centimetres) x girth x 
0.2 is the weekly watering requirement in litres.

If that's too precise, a table such as Ben's could be drawn up for various 
girths.

As ever calculations are available on request. I'm doing that instead of 
putting them in this email because that's the only way I can tell if anyone 
cares to understand.

Julian A. Morris - Professional Tree Services
jamtrees.co.uk<http://jamtrees.co.uk> and 
highhedgesscotland.com<http://highhedgesscotland.com>
0778 XXX XXXX - 0141 XXX XXXX


Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2020 at 10:15 AM
From: "Jon Heuch" <jh@xxxxxxxx.co.uk>
To: "UK Tree Care" <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: RE: Watering trees during the establishment phase

I am afraid that attempting to define how much water a tree needs in 
writing
is prone to problems when the text is to cover all eventualities, 
including
idiots who may read the instructions and apply them to the letter.



This story does have some relevance, so persevere:



I remember a tale told of me in a live forest fire situation; the fire
needed to be put out ASAP, so the radio message went out "Send the bowser
to location X ASAP, emergency". The two staff members got into the bowser
and drove it like crazy to the fire. Great! Problem solved. Now put the 
fire
out! The hose was extended, the pump turned on, and a drizzle of water 
came
out of the hose for a few minutes. No water in the bowser! No one had told
them to fill the bowser with water. However, the instructions were 
followed!



So, in a fire season, resources are deployed according the severity of
conditions. Typically a fire index is calculated based on temperature, 
wind,
relative humidity and previous rainfall. A high index means every body is 
on
high alert; a low index means that everyone can stay in bed.



Watering trees has a similar feel. It's raining and has been raining for 
the
last week. You probably don't need to spend much time watering your newly
planted trees. If it's been 30 degrees C every day for the last week, and
the last time it rained was a month ago, you are probably going to spend
more time watering. You can make it simple - just water during summer 
months
& you may get waste & complacency (operators can cheat, get paid for doing
nothing); or you could be a bit more sophisticated and base your watering
regime on recent weather. MORECS might do the trick but the data costs.



Jon






--
The UK Tree Care mailing list
To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy
http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/<http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/>





--
The UK Tree Care mailing list
To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy
http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/<http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/>
NPS




--
The UK Tree Care mailing list
To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy
http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/





-- 
The UK Tree Care mailing list
To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy
http://www.boskytrees.co.uk/