UKTC Archive

RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: Subsidence

Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: Subsidence
From: Howe, Ron
Date: Mar 18 2020 15:27:24
Barchams would call it root pruning and undercutting ...

Ron Howe
Tree Officer (Planning)
Mole Valley District Council
Tel. 01306 XXX XXX


-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info <uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> 
On Behalf Of Alastair Durkin
Sent: 16 March 2020 08:13
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: Subsidence

Lol, brilliant. I suppose it was quite young when the damage was done, and 
that’s probably the key here. Probably just didn't put on much diameter for a 
few years and ten cracked on. 


-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info <uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> 
On Behalf Of Howe, Ron
Sent: 13 March 2020 11:10
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: Subsidence

It's still there Alastair ... ... been 'lopped' several times. The tree seems 
to be arguing with contemporary opinions! 2018 photo attached.

Ron Howe
Tree Officer (Planning)
Mole Valley District Council
Tel. 01306 XXX XXX

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info <uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> 
On Behalf Of Alastair Durkin
Sent: 12 March 2020 11:02
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: Subsidence

Now that is a sad sight Ron. The photo appears to have been taken in 2004. 
Can we assume that the tree is no longer in attendance?


-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info <uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> 
On Behalf Of Howe, Ron
Sent: 12 March 2020 10:56
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: Subsidence

Ron Howe
Tree Officer (Planning)
Mole Valley District Council
Tel. 01306 XXX XXX

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info <uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> 
On Behalf Of elsteadbysea@xxxxxxxxxxx.com
Sent: 11 March 2020 09:57
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: Subsidence

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Well said Jim.

I still do not understand why some TO's believe roots grow through 
foundations and in a perfect circle!


Phillip

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info <uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> 
On Behalf Of Jim Quaife
Sent: 11 March 2020 09:50
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: RE: Subsidence

Probably 20 years or so ago there was a spate following summer newspaper 
headlines of "What a scorcher!" of ridiculous diagrams showing "safe" 
distances of various tree species from houses.  This was derived from Cutler 
and Richardson (which of itself was widely misinterpreted which was why it 
was withdrawn from print).  I got so fed up with it that I asked Giles Biddle 
to add his name to my letter to the Torygraph (no one was going to take any 
notice of me!).  I had no response, but two or three weeks later the TG 
published a half-page article setting the record straight and those diagrams 
have not appeared since.
However, many insurers continue to use them as benchmarks for trees in 
proximity to houses.  Whereas one can show that they are baseless in 
generality, nevertheless insurers have to have something that flags up the 
risk presented by trees to property.  These distances may be of dubious 
worth, but if it prompts an arb appraisal at least the risks can either be 
identified or dismissed.  If the latter (bearing in mind that the arb will 
have PI insurance) then the householder and their insurers can relax.  If the 
former then the risk can be removed or at least managed. More prosaically, 
the householder may be able to negotiate a reduction in premium.
There is a fundamental principle here for us arbs in that we have to 
understand the motivation of others and learn to speak their language so that 
we can put our messages across effectively.
Insurers aren't interested in technical verbiage about trees; they just need 
to know what is to happen and who is taking the risk.
Jim


-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info 
[mailto:uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info] On Behalf Of 
elsteadbysea@xxxxxxxxxxx.com
Sent: 10 March 2020 19:21
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: RE: Subsidence

Here is another one attached a client gave me a few years ago. Talks about 
maintaining trees to 10 metres. How would that work with a TPO tree.
Although it does not say I recall every tree within 10 metres of property had 
to be inspected  and height recorded.

Phillip

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info <uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> 
On Behalf Of "Corder, Chris"
Sent: 10 March 2020 16:37
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: Subsidence

Hi all,

Here is an ‘interesting one’
(passed to me by a house holder trying to meet this obligation) What do you 
make of this clause:

“ SUB10 Tree Maintenance
All trees and shrubs within 5 metres (16ft) of the home which are more than 
10 metres (32ft) tall, must be inspected by a Tree Surgeon at least once 
every two years and any recommendations made carried out to manage them. You 
must also notify your neighbours and/or local authority regarding their 
responsibility to maintain all trees and shrubs within 5 metres (16ft) of 
your home. The notification should be made via registered post with all 
copies of correspondence kept. If there has been no inspection in the last 2 
years then one must be arranged within the first 2 months of the inception of 
your insurance policy, and every 2 years thereafter. If the above 
requirements are not met then we reserve the right to cancel, void or amend 
the terms of your policy or refuse to deal with a claim for Subsidence.”

Informing neighbours is one thing.
But I fail to see how it is reasonable for insurers to burden someone with 
ensuring that their neighbours carry out an inspection every 2 years (which 
is how the enquirer interpreted it)

If this IS how it is meant to be interpreted, then how can this be?
The law doesn’t require this level of inspection of householders.
And insurers don’t get to dictate how often ‘neighbours’ should inspect their 
trees.
And, in relation to subsidence, what exactly would a “Tree Surgeon” inspect 
for anyway?
And where did 5m & 10m come from?
All very strange.

Anyone else had this one crop up?
(don’t know which insurer is now using these words, hopefully not one of the 
main ones, otherwise we all might be dealing with a few more frustrated 
enquirers)

Good business for “Tree Surgeons” though!?

(p.s. I get the digest so can't respond quickly to any questions)

All the best,
Chris Corder

Christopher Corder MICFor, PDArb (RFS), BSc (Hons) in arboriculture, MArborA 
Assistant Arboricultural Manager Hampshire Highways
Tel: 0300 XXX XXXX
Web: www.hants.gov.uk/roads
@Hantshighways

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