UKTC Archive

Re: Hidden defects

Subject: Re: Hidden defects
From: Wayne Tyson
Date: Jul 27 2020 20:51:44
" . . . there are lessons to be learned from every tree that can be applied
to the way we carry out our jobs."

I agree that if there was a central repository for a somewhat standardized
but evolving, open-source post-failure assessment reporting system, and if
more such assessments were done, that patterns might eventually emerge as
data that should steadily improve the practice of tree failure assessments.

The phenomenon is both simple and multi-factorial. I never have declared
any tree to be "safe." I have reported what I have observed and commented
on whether the observations appear to signify a trend toward tree
strengthening or weakening. I don't believe there is any basis for
prosecuting a tree professional unless, perhaps, an opinion is rendered
that the singular tree in question is "perfectly healthy" when a reasonable
and knowledgeable person should have detected defects--but even then, I see
it as a tort, not a crime, perhaps subject to civil action. I respectfully
request a discussion concerning *the subject*, and relevant specifics.

Wayne

On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 9:14 AM AV Arboriculture <mike@xxxxxxx.co.uk> wrote:

Apologies Jerry, I didn't see that.

Regards,

Mike Charkow
Principal Arboriculturist
______________________
Arbor Vitae Arboriculture Ltd

Planning surveys, Tree inspections, Bats in trees inspections,
Arboricultural consultancy, Soil de-compaction, Root Investigation,
Woodland Management.

[ mailto:info@xxxxxxx.co.uk | info@xxxxxxx.co.uk ]
[ https://avtree.co.uk/ | www.avtree.co.uk ]
07917XXXXXX
Company Registration Number: SC413171

----- Original Message -----
From: "trees" <trees@xxxxxxxxxx.co.uk>
To: "uktc" <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Sent: Monday, 27 July, 2020 17:00:46
Subject: Re: Hidden defects

I addressed mine to both you and David so I don't see why you should
feel singled out.
Also, you'd banged out another couple of one-liners by the time I'd
formulated and sent my response.

Enough.


On 27/07/2020 16:52, AV Arboriculture wrote:
I agree Jerry; I have stepped down from the disfunctional thread and
made that clear in my last posts. Can I ask why you are singling me out?

Regards,

Mike Charkow
Principal Arboriculturist
______________________
Arbor Vitae Arboriculture Ltd

Planning surveys, Tree inspections, Bats in trees inspections,
Arboricultural consultancy, Soil de-compaction, Root Investigation,
Woodland Management.

[ mailto:info@xxxxxxx.co.uk | info@xxxxxxx.co.uk ]
[ https://avtree.co.uk/ | www.avtree.co.uk ]
07917XXXXXX
Company Registration Number: SC413171

----- Original Message -----
From: "trees" <trees@xxxxxxxxxx.co.uk>
To: "uktc" <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Sent: Monday, 27 July, 2020 16:38:39
Subject: Re: Hidden defects

Mike, David, please let's not disappear down this hole again as there
seems to be no possibility of there being any light at the end of it.
The subject has been discussed at length previously and as the twain
seem unlikely to meet, perhaps you should each go your own way.
I do appreciate that it's an important subject; it's just that it's
never going to be resolved in this forum. I suggest your views would be
better aired in something like the Arb Journal, where there's more room
to expand and less opportunity for things to get over-heated.

Thanks
Jerry


On 27/07/2020 15:16, David Evans wrote:
<<I'm not sure that there's much need for a discussion on semantics. To
my mind our job is to look at a tree carefully (inspection) and assess any
potential defects or symptoms of defects (assessment) to quantify - to the
best of our ability - the risk. It's all part of the same process. However,
we do need to find the potential defects in order to be able to assess
them.>>

I'm sure there's absolutely nothing I agree with here.

Thanks. It's been a useful further exploration of what I think is
risk-averse, hazard-driven thinking that often comes with managing
secondary risk (the risk of a claim against the 'inspector') with hindsight
bias. Rather than managing the primary risk (from tree failure) which the
duty holder is responsible for. It demonstrates why the duty holder having
a strategy that tells us what 'our job is', is so important.

Cheers

Acer Ventura











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The UKTC forum is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy and
Stockholm Tree Pits
https://www.stockholmtreepits.co.uk




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To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC forum is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy and
Stockholm Tree Pits
https://www.stockholmtreepits.co.uk