UKTC Archive

RE: Subsidence where foundations less than 300mm deep

Subject: RE: Subsidence where foundations less than 300mm deep
From: Jim Quaife
Date: Sep 09 2020 07:23:00
Things have moved on a bit since that film Wayne.  
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info 
[mailto:uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info] On Behalf Of Wayne Tyson
Sent: 08 September 2020 21:18
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: Re: Subsidence where foundations less than 300mm deep

Lookit what I found! Very characteristically politely stated, but
knowledgeably. However, it is not impossible to measure the rate of water
absorption by clays.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTRdmt0BlVk

Unfortunately, I found the more senior gentleman somewhat difficult to
understand, but Mr. Crilly was quite clear. In the absence of solid
research to the contrary, I'm presently placing the tree-caused subsidence
(actually shrinkage, in expansive clays) in the persistent myth category
(back where I found it).

Wayne


On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 12:22 PM Bill Anderson <
anderson.arb.original@xxxxxx.com> wrote:

I don't think Law comes into it Liam. It's insurance industry practice,
unless there's a dispute over who's tree it is that causes the problem and
who should have done something to prevent it. As far as I can see if my
tree causes my house to subside, the only person to blame is the one that
designed the foundations. Of course that person might have said these
foundations are OK but don't let your Mulberry tree 5 metres away ever get
to be more than 6 metres tall with a commensurate spread, but as far as I'm
aware foundation-designers rarely say that. I'd agree entirely that growing
a dirty great Oak tree hard against a wall ought to be an obvious no-no,
but building something without foundations and then blaming a random nearby
tree is just illogical.

And off-hand I bet the insurance industry spends more of our premiums on
keeping their execs in Porsches and BMWs than it does on subsidence
payouts!

Bill.


On Tue, 8 Sep 2020 at 19:47, Liam McKarry <Liam.McKarry@xxxxxxxxxxx.gov.uk>
wrote:

Sorry Jerry I don’t agree - the cost of increased numbers of insurance
claims is met by premium prices going up; it’s a cost met by customers.

Liam McKarry
Arboricultural Officer (Planning)
01206 XXXXXX
________________________________
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info <
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
on behalf of Jerry Ross <trees@xxxxxxxxxx.co.uk>
Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2020 7:34:27 PM
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: Re: Subsidence where foundations less than 300mm deep

This message originated Externally. Do not click links or open
attachments
unless you recognise the sender, were expecting it and know that the
content is safe.

"we demonise the insurance industry for trying to minimise the cost to
their customer"


Delete 'customer'; substitute 'shareholder'.

From my mobile
On 8 September 2020 18:43:44 Liam McKarry <
Liam.McKarry@xxxxxxxxxxx.gov.uk>
wrote:

Bill,

It’s merely a statement of how things are as per case law.

Even if the foundation is not deep enough, in the absence of tree roots
would the damage occur is one of the first questions asked. I’m unaware
that anyone has ever successfully challenged it in law and therefore,
however illogical it is, we just have to deal with it.

Subsidence is a divisive subject that as an industry we get ourselves
in
knots over (unnecessarily in my opinion) and have never really
understood
that at the bottom of this is usually a person who just wants their
house
fixed and  (how much flak will I get for that one!)



Liam McKarry
Arboricultural Officer (Planning)
01206 XXXXXX
________________________________
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info <
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
on behalf of Bill Anderson <anderson.arb.original@xxxxxx.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2020 6:18:40 PM
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: Re: Subsidence where foundations less than 300mm deep

This message originated Externally. Do not click links or open
attachments
unless you recognise the sender, were expecting it and know that the
content is safe.

"Whether we like it or not inadequate foundations is rarely a good
defence
if the property is on a clay soil with a cyclical pattern of movement"

I don't see any logic in this statement Liam; why bother with
foundations
at all? If the foundation is not adequate for the soil type, doesn't
meet
spec, (specification) it's not really fair to even call it a
foundation.
However if the foundation does meet the spec and still moves then yes
remove the tree, and hope that another one doesn't grow.
Notwithstanding
the fact that if the foundation meets spec and still the building
cracks
then the spec must have been wrong.

I'm not saying your quotation isn't an accurate summary of what
happens,
just that it's not really logical, and certainly not fair. Jerry has
summed
it up really eloquently in my opinion.



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To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

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This email, and any attachment, is solely for the intended recipient(s).
If you have received it in error, you must not take any action based upon
it, or forward, copy or show it to anyone; please notify the sender, then
permanently delete it and any attachments. Any views or opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of
Colchester Borough Council. Although the Council has taken reasonable
precautions to ensure there are no viruses in this email, the Council
cannot accept responsibility for any loss or damage arising from this
email
or attachments. The Council takes the management of personal data
seriously
and it does this in compliance with data protection legislation. For
information about how personal data is used and stored, please go to
www.colchester.gov.uk/privacy.



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The UKTC forum is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy and
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