UKTC Archive

RE: Natives vs future

Subject: RE: Natives vs future
From: Jim Quaife
Date: Oct 22 2020 15:37:34
I will try and find the details, but an FC friend was in the New Forest for 
many years (27 I think) and they were investigating soils and discovered 
Liriodendron pollen at a depth that probably preceded the ice age.  We 
generally regard 10,000 years ago as the retreat of the ice which was not 
supposed to have reached the south coast, although the ghylls near 
Crowborough, East Sussex, are (apparently) typical of meltwater.
Our 33 natives is a pathetically small number, and the naturalisation of 
elms, horse chestnut, sycamore et al is well established, each with their 
adopted ecology.  (Sycamore has far more associated wildlife than beech).  At 
a meeting of the Oxford Forestry Group in 1991 I listened to the study of the 
alternating succession between ash and sycamore.
I wonder if the fixation about native species is quite as binary as some 
would have it. 
DED and ADD are a litmus test of bio-security and I for one advocate exotics, 
provided that one is mindful of proportionality and respect areas where 
native is actually the justified priority.
Right - time for more coffee!
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info 
[mailto:uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info] On Behalf Of Jerry Ross
Sent: 22 October 2020 15:50
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: Re: Natives vs future

It's worth recalling that our natives have been around through several 
pretty major climatic vicissitudes: the Roman Warm Period,from 250BC to 
AD 400,when temperatures were between 1 & 2° warmer and there were 
vineyards in Norway; then there was the medieval warm period from 950 to 
1250, not to mention the Holocene climatic optimum, a thousand years 
after the last ice age. And we shouldn't ignore the 'little ice age' 
between 1645 and 1715
Most of our native species weathered these changes, so let's not write 
them off now.




On 22/10/2020 12:34, Charlie Ashworth wrote:
Bryn,

Sorry, my interest was in specifics.

But re your interest, there is a need to plant a diverse range of species 
to meet climate/environmental changes, but if we stop planting natives in 
groups then we are not even giving them a chance to adapt.  I understand 
the desire to plant for successful timber production, but there should be a 
balance between the old and the new - as there would be in a natural, 
unplanted, woodland environment - as well as a balance between profit and 
benevolence.

Charlie


Charlotte Ashworth MArborA

www.tree-care.org.uk
charlie@xxxxxxxxxx.org.uk
Mobile:07812 XXX XXX
Office: 01270 XXX XXX

On 22 Oct 2020, at 09:59, Brynley Andrews <brynley.andrews@xxxxxx.com> 
wrote:

Charlie, Tahir, Jim
Thanks for the replies.

The current farmland covers 120ha and we are aiming for planting ~ 15ha of
woodland. Orchards and parkland are also happening. A further ~ 400ha are
in the pipeline.

The specifics about right species and management are not what interest me
here, which is the battle between the old 'native species are best mantra'
and modern 'climate/carbon/futurism' models. My point being - surely it is
time for climate/carbon/futurism, and therefore, those pushing natives as a
knee jerk response are out of touch?

Being slightly provocative for the sake of debate.

Thanks

Bryn

On Thu, 22 Oct 2020 at 09:31, Jim Quaife <jq@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk> 
wrote:

Hi Brynley,
Sounds like a really absorbing project, but with no details about anything
all one can say is that depending upon scale there is usually a
compromise.  The ambition for a sawmill is very much long term if it is
based on current planting!
The appetite for a sawmill suggests that there is already some production
in view, but again a sawmill can be a Woodmizer (or something similar -
owned or contract hire) or a static installation.   If it is to be 
anything
other than casual/incidental the throughput needs to be substantial.
The use of exotics is to my mind essential as a diversity safeguard for
bio-security.
The fascination with woodlands is that they can accommodate a wide range
of interests and the role of the consultant is to explore them all and to
come up with a balanced scheme.  Again, depending upon scale it doesn't
necessarily have to be done in one hit.
Enjoy!
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info [mailto:
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info] On Behalf Of Brynley Andrews
Sent: 22 October 2020 08:49
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: Natives vs future

Dear all

I am involved in a large scale farm woodland planting scheme.

The FC favour high performance carbon/timber/eco species, and the ANOB/LA
landscape planners favour traditional species to form traditional 
landscape
features.

There is considerable overlap potential but the FC seem to be more inline
with modern thinking. And arguably the LA/ANOB are part of the old failed
model.

Also, The landowner intends to eventually run a sawmill on the Eatate.

I am proposing a highly diverse mix of 50/50 exotics & natives as suits 
the
soil/climate/objectives - with special emphasis on targeting habitat for
priority fauna species.

It is a fun project & I welcome your input.

Thanks

Brynley

--
Brynley Arboriculturist / urban forester



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-- 
Brynley M M Andrews MSc., C.Env., M.Arbor.A.
www.brynleyandrewsassociates.com
01935 XXXXXX
07970 XXXXXX



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