UKTC Archive

RE: Natives vs future

Subject: RE: Natives vs future
From: elton.trees
Date: Oct 22 2020 22:09:54

This is worth a view, forestry orientated, but many of the species discussed 
have been advocated and planted by arbs for many 
years.https://vimeo.com/470591325/15362eff78Sent from my Samsung Galaxy 
smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: Tim Moya 
<tim.moya@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk> Date: 22/10/2020  17:03  (GMT+00:00) To: UK 
Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> Subject: RE: Natives vs future 
However, the last ice age lasted for about 100,000 years. Trees growing in 
the last interglacial (including a warm period which only lasted about 15,000 
years) would have been around in a rather different, but short lived, world. 
No reason not to introduce more exotic tree species. As Jim says, we have a 
very small number of natives. But there is also a lot of diversity within 
native species still to be explored.Tim Moya-----Original Message-----From: 
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info <uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> On 
Behalf Of Jim QuaifeSent: 22 October 2020 16:52To: UK Tree Care 
<uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>Subject: RE: Natives vs futureEr - preceded the 
END OF the ice age.Jim-----Original Message-----From: 
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info 
[mailto:uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info] On Behalf Of Jim QuaifeSent: 22 
October 2020 16:48To: UK Tree CareSubject: Spam> RE: Natives vs futureI will 
try and find the details, but an FC friend was in the New Forest for many 
years (27 I think) and they were investigating soils and discovered 
Liriodendron pollen at a depth that probably preceded the ice age.  We 
generally regard 10,000 years ago as the retreat of the ice which was not 
supposed to have reached the south coast, although the ghylls near 
Crowborough, East Sussex, are (apparently) typical of meltwater.Our 33 
natives is a pathetically small number, and the naturalisation of elms, horse 
chestnut, sycamore et al is well established, each with their adopted 
ecology.  (Sycamore has far more associated wildlife than beech).  At a 
meeting of the Oxford Forestry Group in 1991 I listened to the study of the 
alternating succession between ash and sycamore.I wonder if the fixation 
about native species is quite as binary as some would have it. DED and ADD 
are a litmus test of bio-security and I for one advocate exotics, provided 
that one is mindful of proportionality and respect areas where native is 
actually the justified priority.Right - time for more coffee!Jim-----Original 
Message-----From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info 
[mailto:uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info] On Behalf Of Jerry RossSent: 22 
October 2020 15:50To: UK Tree CareSubject: Re: Natives vs futureIt's worth 
recalling that our natives have been around through several pretty major 
climatic vicissitudes: the Roman Warm Period,from 250BC to AD 400,when 
temperatures were between 1 & 2° warmer and there were vineyards in Norway; 
then there was the medieval warm period from 950 to 1250, not to mention the 
Holocene climatic optimum, a thousand years after the last ice age. And we 
shouldn't ignore the 'little ice age' between 1645 and 1715Most of our native 
species weathered these changes, so let's not write them off now.On 
22/10/2020 12:34, Charlie Ashworth wrote:> Bryn,>> Sorry, my interest was in 
specifics.>> But re your interest, there is a need to plant a diverse range 
of species to meet climate/environmental changes, but if we stop planting 
natives in groups then we are not even giving them a chance to adapt.  I 
understand the desire to plant for successful timber production, but there 
should be a balance between the old and the new - as there would be in a 
natural, unplanted, woodland environment - as well as a balance between 
profit and benevolence.>> Charlie>>> Charlotte Ashworth MArborA>> 
www.tree-care.org.uk> charlie@xxxxxxxxxx.org.uk> Mobile:07812 XXX XXX> 
Office: 01270 XXX XXX>>> On 22 Oct 2020, at 09:59, Brynley Andrews 
<brynley.andrews@xxxxxx.com> wrote:>>>> Charlie, Tahir, Jim>> Thanks for the 
replies.>>>> The current farmland covers 120ha and we are aiming for planting 
~ >> 15ha of woodland. Orchards and parkland are also happening. A further >> 
~ 400ha are in the pipeline.>>>> The specifics about right species and 
management are not what >> interest me here, which is the battle between the 
old 'native species are best mantra'>> and modern 'climate/carbon/futurism' 
models. My point being - surely >> it is time for climate/carbon/futurism, 
and therefore, those pushing >> natives as a knee jerk response are out of 
touch?>>>> Being slightly provocative for the sake of debate.>>>> Thanks>>>> 
Bryn>>>> On Thu, 22 Oct 2020 at 09:31, Jim Quaife 
<jq@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk> wrote:>>>>> Hi Brynley,>>> Sounds like a really 
absorbing project, but with no details about >>> anything all one can say is 
that depending upon scale there is >>> usually a compromise.  The ambition 
for a sawmill is very much long >>> term if it is based on current 
planting!>>> The appetite for a sawmill suggests that there is already some 
production in view, but again a sawmill can be a Woodmizer (or something 
similar ->>> owned or contract hire) or a static installation.   If it is to 
be anything>>> other than casual/incidental the throughput needs to be 
substantial.>>> The use of exotics is to my mind essential as a diversity 
safeguard >>> for bio-security.>>> The fascination with woodlands is that 
they can accommodate a wide >>> range of interests and the role of the 
consultant is to explore them >>> all and to come up with a balanced scheme.  
Again, depending upon >>> scale it doesn't necessarily have to be done in one 
hit.>>> Enjoy!>>> Jim>>>>>> -----Original Message----->>> From: 
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info [mailto:>>> 
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info] On Behalf Of Brynley Andrews>>> Sent: 22 
October 2020 08:49>>> To: UK Tree Care>>> Subject: Natives vs future>>>>>> 
Dear all>>>>>> I am involved in a large scale farm woodland planting 
scheme.>>>>>> The FC favour high performance carbon/timber/eco species, and 
the >>> ANOB/LA landscape planners favour traditional species to form >>> 
traditional landscape features.>>>>>> There is considerable overlap potential 
but the FC seem to be more >>> inline with modern thinking. And arguably the 
LA/ANOB are part of >>> the old failed model.>>>>>> Also, The landowner 
intends to eventually run a sawmill on the Eatate.>>>>>> I am proposing a 
highly diverse mix of 50/50 exotics & natives as >>> suits the 
soil/climate/objectives - with special emphasis on >>> targeting habitat for 
priority fauna species.>>>>>> It is a fun project & I welcome your 
input.>>>>>> Thanks>>>>>> Brynley>>>>>> -->>> Brynley Arboriculturist / urban 
forester>>>>>>>>>>>> -->>> The UK Tree Care mailing list>>> To unsubscribe 
send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>>>>>> The UKTC forum is 
supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural >>> consultancy and Stockholm Tree 
Pits >>> https://www.stockholmtreepits.co.uk>>>>>>>>>>>> -->>> The UK Tree 
Care mailing list>>> To unsubscribe send 
mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>>>>>> The UKTC forum is 
supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural >>> consultancy and Stockholm Tree 
Pits >>> https://www.stockholmtreepits.co.uk>>>>>>> -->> Brynley M M Andrews 
MSc., C.Env., M.Arbor.A.>> www.brynleyandrewsassociates.com>> 01935 XXXXXX>> 
07970 XXXXXX>>>>>>>> -->> The UK Tree Care mailing list>> To unsubscribe send 
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is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy andStockholm Tree 
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unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.infoThe UKTC forum 
is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy andStockholm Tree 
Pitshttps://www.stockholmtreepits.co.uk-- The UK Tree Care mailing listTo 
unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.infoThe UKTC forum 
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