UKTC Archive

Re: Natives vs future

Subject: Re: Natives vs future
From: Brynley Andrews
Date: Oct 23 2020 08:04:09
Thanks Elton - link does not appear to work for me. This one does
https://vimeo.com/470591325/15362eff78


On Thu, 22 Oct 2020 at 23:09, elton.trees <elton.trees@xxxxxxxx.co.uk> wrote:


This is worth a view, forestry orientated, but many of the species
discussed have been advocated and planted by arbs for many years.
https://vimeo.com/470591325/15362eff78Sent from my Samsung Galaxy
smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: Tim Moya <
tim.moya@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk> Date: 22/10/2020  17:03  (GMT+00:00) To:
UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> Subject: RE: Natives vs future
However, the last ice age lasted for about 100,000 years. Trees growing in
the last interglacial (including a warm period which only lasted about
15,000 years) would have been around in a rather different, but short
lived, world. No reason not to introduce more exotic tree species. As Jim
says, we have a very small number of natives. But there is also a lot of
diversity within native species still to be explored.Tim Moya-----Original
Message-----From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info <
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> On Behalf Of Jim QuaifeSent: 22
October 2020 16:52To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>Subject:
RE: Natives vs futureEr - preceded the END OF the ice age.Jim-----Original
Message-----From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info [mailto:
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info] On Behalf Of Jim QuaifeSent: 22
October 2020 16:48To: UK Tree CareSubject: Spam> RE: Natives vs futureI
will try and find the details, but an FC friend was in the New Forest for
many years (27 I think) and they were investigating soils and discovered
Liriodendron pollen at a depth that probably preceded the ice age.  We
generally regard 10,000 years ago as the retreat of the ice which was not
supposed to have reached the south coast, although the ghylls near
Crowborough, East Sussex, are (apparently) typical of meltwater.Our 33
natives is a pathetically small number, and the naturalisation of elms,
horse chestnut, sycamore et al is well established, each with their adopted
ecology.  (Sycamore has far more associated wildlife than beech).  At a
meeting of the Oxford Forestry Group in 1991 I listened to the study of the
alternating succession between ash and sycamore.I wonder if the fixation
about native species is quite as binary as some would have it. DED and ADD
are a litmus test of bio-security and I for one advocate exotics, provided
that one is mindful of proportionality and respect areas where native is
actually the justified priority.Right - time for more
coffee!Jim-----Original Message-----From:
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info [mailto:
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info] On Behalf Of Jerry RossSent: 22
October 2020 15:50To: UK Tree CareSubject: Re: Natives vs futureIt's worth
recalling that our natives have been around through several pretty major
climatic vicissitudes: the Roman Warm Period,from 250BC to AD 400,when
temperatures were between 1 & 2° warmer and there were vineyards in Norway;
then there was the medieval warm period from 950 to 1250, not to mention
the Holocene climatic optimum, a thousand years after the last ice age. And
we shouldn't ignore the 'little ice age' between 1645 and 1715Most of our
native species weathered these changes, so let's not write them off now.On
22/10/2020 12:34, Charlie Ashworth wrote:> Bryn,>> Sorry, my interest was
in specifics.>> But re your interest, there is a need to plant a diverse
range of species to meet climate/environmental changes, but if we stop
planting natives in groups then we are not even giving them a chance to
adapt.  I understand the desire to plant for successful timber production,
but there should be a balance between the old and the new - as there would
be in a natural, unplanted, woodland environment - as well as a balance
between profit and benevolence.>> Charlie>>> Charlotte Ashworth MArborA>>
www.tree-care.org.uk> charlie@xxxxxxxxxx.org.uk> Mobile:07812 XXX XXX>
Office: 01270 XXX XXX>>> On 22 Oct 2020, at 09:59, Brynley Andrews <
brynley.andrews@xxxxxx.com> wrote:>>>> Charlie, Tahir, Jim>> Thanks for
the replies.>>>> The current farmland covers 120ha and we are aiming for
planting ~ >> 15ha of woodland. Orchards and parkland are also happening. A
further >> ~ 400ha are in the pipeline.>>>> The specifics about right
species and management are not what >> interest me here, which is the
battle between the old 'native species are best mantra'>> and modern
'climate/carbon/futurism' models. My point being - surely >> it is time for
climate/carbon/futurism, and therefore, those pushing >> natives as a knee
jerk response are out of touch?>>>> Being slightly provocative for the sake
of debate.>>>> Thanks>>>> Bryn>>>> On Thu, 22 Oct 2020 at 09:31, Jim Quaife
<jq@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk> wrote:>>>>> Hi Brynley,>>> Sounds like a
really absorbing project, but with no details about >>> anything all one
can say is that depending upon scale there is >>> usually a compromise.
The ambition for a sawmill is very much long >>> term if it is based on
current planting!>>> The appetite for a sawmill suggests that there is
already some >>> production in view, but again a sawmill can be a Woodmizer
(or something similar ->>> owned or contract hire) or a static
installation.   If it is to be anything>>> other than casual/incidental the
throughput needs to be substantial.>>> The use of exotics is to my mind
essential as a diversity safeguard >>> for bio-security.>>> The fascination
with woodlands is that they can accommodate a wide >>> range of interests
and the role of the consultant is to explore them >>> all and to come up
with a balanced scheme.  Again, depending upon >>> scale it doesn't
necessarily have to be done in one hit.>>> Enjoy!>>> Jim>>>>>>
-----Original Message----->>> From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info
[mailto:>>> uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info] On Behalf Of Brynley
Andrews>>> Sent: 22 October 2020 08:49>>> To: UK Tree Care>>> Subject:
Natives vs future>>>>>> Dear all>>>>>> I am involved in a large scale farm
woodland planting scheme.>>>>>> The FC favour high performance
carbon/timber/eco species, and the >>> ANOB/LA landscape planners favour
traditional species to form >>> traditional landscape features.>>>>>> There
is considerable overlap potential but the FC seem to be more >>> inline
with modern thinking. And arguably the LA/ANOB are part of >>> the old
failed model.>>>>>> Also, The landowner intends to eventually run a sawmill
on the Eatate.>>>>>> I am proposing a highly diverse mix of 50/50 exotics &
natives as >>> suits the soil/climate/objectives - with special emphasis on
targeting habitat for priority fauna species.>>>>>> It is a fun project
& I welcome your input.>>>>>> Thanks>>>>>> Brynley>>>>>> -->>> Brynley
Arboriculturist / urban forester>>>>>>>>>>>> -->>> The UK Tree Care mailing
list>>> To unsubscribe send 
mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>>>>>>
The UKTC forum is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural >>> consultancy
and Stockholm Tree Pits >>> https://www.stockholmtreepits.co.uk>>>>>>>>>>>>
-->>> The UK Tree Care mailing list>>> To unsubscribe send mailto:
uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>>>>>> The UKTC forum is supported
by Bosky Trees arboricultural >>> consultancy and Stockholm Tree Pits >>>
https://www.stockholmtreepits.co.uk>>>>>>> -->> Brynley M M Andrews MSc.,
C.Env., M.Arbor.A.>> www.brynleyandrewsassociates.com>> 01935 XXXXXX>>
07970 XXXXXX>>>>>>>> -->> The UK Tree Care mailing list>> To unsubscribe
send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>>>> The UKTC forum is
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unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.infoThe UKTC
forum is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy andStockholm
Tree Pitshttps://www.stockholmtreepits.co.uk-- The UK Tree Care mailing
listTo unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.infoThe
UKTC forum is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy
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Brynley Arboriculturist / urban forester



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