UKTC Archive

Re: How long does an ancient woodland take to develop?

Subject: Re: How long does an ancient woodland take to develop?
From: Wayne Tyson
Date: Feb 11 2021 08:59:25
"Ancient" takes a long time; reintroducing the elements of a reference
forest in the right way on a properly-prepared (this is critical, but not
difficult) site. The important thing is to get on with it.

WT

On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 12:54 AM Hare, Gareth <
Gareth.Hare@xxxxxxxxxxxx.gov.uk> wrote:



From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info [mailto:
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info] On Behalf Of Mark Mackworth-Praed
Sent: 09 February 2021 17:58
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: RE: How long does an ancient woodland take to develop?

'You can't rush evolution' - very true, unless of course you happen to be
a spiky sort of virus.

Mark M-P

Or an ascomycete fungus….



-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info<mailto:
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> <uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info
<mailto:uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>> On Behalf Of
benjaminfuest758@xxxxxxxxxxx.com<mailto:benjaminfuest758@xxxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: 09 February 2021 15:23
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info<mailto:
uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>>
Subject: Re: How long does an ancient woodland take to develop?

Absolutely Jim. You can’t rush evolution.

Sent from my iPhone

On 9 Feb 2021, at 14:59, oldoaktree@xxxxxxxxx.net<mailto:
oldoaktree@xxxxxxxxx.net> <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info<mailto:
uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>> wrote:

Hi Jim,

Yes I remember you talking about that. They did the right thing to give
up if they wanted to be back home for tea. In 2150.

The woodland I have been talking about has been, in part, degraded by
conifer plantations but the FC, bless erm, have been putting it right by
replacing with broadleaf natives as of late.

Like you say, a woodland is only part trees, and I would gamble that
under the ground is more important than over it, as it is often seen when
plantations on ancient woodlands are often overtaken by the natural flora
because the soil and its massive array of co-conspirators can’t but help to
restore the 'ecological cathedral'. Good on 'erm.

Go easy

Dave



-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info<mailto:
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
<uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info<mailto:
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>> On Behalf Of Jim Quaife
Sent: 09 February 2021 14:33
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info<mailto:
uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>>
Subject: RE: How long does an ancient woodland take to develop?

I'm sure that I've posted this before but in the 70s the FC excavated a
cubic metre (literally a cube) from a sitka plantation to count the number
of organisms present, microscopic and otherwise. They gave up at a million.
AW is as much to do with the soil as trees and one cannot plant an AW,
but one can plant a woodland which has the potential to become one.
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info<mailto:
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
[mailto:uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info] On Behalf Of
oldoaktree@xxxxxxxxx.net<mailto:oldoaktree@xxxxxxxxx.net>
Sent: 09 February 2021 13:16
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: RE: How long does an ancient woodland take to develop?

Thanks for all of your replies, illuminating and thought provoking.

I'm not in a position to say much on here, but as an Arb it is so sad to
see such wanton ignorance about these, to use a Chris Packham phrase,
'Ecological Cathedrals'.

I'm just reading Bill Bryson's A Short History of Everything which I
thoroughly recommend and the extent of what we don’t know is a real take
home factor from this very accessible book. Some of it is very funny too
which always goes down well with me!

Indulge me a quote on fungi "gather together all the fungi in a typical
hectare of meadowland and you will have 2800 kilogrammes of the stuff.
These are not marginal organisms. - Altogether, about 70 thousand species
have been identified but it is thought the total number could be as high as
1.8 million".

That book was wrote in 2003 so I wouldn't be surprised if those figures
are a lot higher now.

Cheers

Dave




-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info<mailto:
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
<uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info<mailto:
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>> On Behalf Of Jon Heuch
Sent: 09 February 2021 12:34
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info<mailto:
uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>>
Subject: Re: How long does an ancient woodland take to develop?

Dave



It's quite a challenge since it is a categorisation (I was told off once
by describing ASNW as a designation) so it cannot be recreated:



i) About 400 years

ii) You will need a time machine to enter the plot on some
ancient maps to make sure that each subsequent map shows the area to
be wooded



However, If you are asking how long will it take for a bare patch of
land to develop into woodland with some good ecological features of
course the best model is the Rothamsted fields that were left.
Wildnerness was the word adopted then; now we might used the term
re-wilding. They are very well documented
http://www.era.rothamsted.ac.uk/index.php?area=home<
http://www.era.rothamsted.ac.uk/index.php?area=home>
<http://www.era.rothamsted.ac.uk/index.php?area=home&page=index&datase<
http://www.era.rothamsted.ac.uk/index.php?area=home&page=index&datase>
t=8> &page=index&dataset=8. They have been around for 140 years so you
may have a lot of reading to do to work out what sort of time frame you
want to consider.



Jon






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