UKTC Archive

RE: How long does an ancient woodland take to develop?

Subject: RE: How long does an ancient woodland take to develop?
From: willross583@xxxxxxxxxxx.com
Date: Feb 26 2021 08:30:31
Jerry,
          The greenwash isn't particularly successful, reminds me more of the 
stinking wash containing slurry etc that ones uses to age tiled roofs, so a 
shower of S****

Will 

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info <uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> 
On Behalf Of Jerry Ross
Sent: 26 February 2021 08:12
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: Re: How long does an ancient woodland take to develop?

Wayne - I think you misunderstand. The promoters of HS2* have no interest in 
the successful relocation of a soil microbiome - they are merely indulging in 
an exercise in greenwash

(*No reason why you, in California, should be aware of HS2 but it's a mjor 
infrastructure project to plough a new high speed (HS) rail track tthrough 
the spine of England - see 
https://www.wildlifetrusts.org/news/hs2-exorbitant-cost-nature )

On 25/02/2021 23:48, Wayne Tyson wrote:
I published on this in the January 1979 issue of *Landscape architecture*.
A lot of water over the dam since.

It is important to essential that the "piles" don't compost. This is 
not easy in your climate. I still don't have a handle on the details 
of the soil microbiome, but getting that on a project that required 
storage for a time will be crucial. Make sure no part "goes 
anaerobic." There are more than fungi involved that must survive in a 
dormant state or be allowed to colonize rhizospheres and roots of 
living plants that permeate the stored volume. Frequent monitoring is 
essential. First, the microbiome(s) should be characterized, by 
genetics and as much identification by species and percent population 
as possible. Reliable surrogate species that are representative of the 
unique microbiome might be used to cut the workload down as much as 
possible. An alternative that I plan to test if I ever get back to a 
project that fell "temporarily" to the pandemic.

This is the best I can do for now, but I'll try to be of further help 
if you have questions.

WT

On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 1:54 PM Paul Barton <paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk> 
wrote:

Ah, so that’s why the contractors for HS2 are scraping up piles of 
soil to relocate the ancient woodland to a new home.

So simple!

Kind regards,

Paul Barton
MSc, BSc (Hons), TechCert (ArborA), MArborA Registered Consultant of 
the Arboricultural Association

Director | Barton Hyett Associates Ltd
Website: www.barton-hyett.co.uk <https://barton-hyett.co.uk/>
Tel: 01386 XXXXXX
Mobile: 07765 XXXXXX


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On 9 Feb 2021, at 14:33, Jim Quaife <jq@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk> wrote:

I'm sure that I've posted this before but in the 70s the FC 
excavated a
cubic metre (literally a cube) from a sitka plantation to count the 
number of organisms present, microscopic and otherwise.  They gave up at a 
million.
AW is as much to do with the soil as trees and one cannot plant an 
AW,
but one can plant a woodland which has the potential to become one.
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info [mailto:
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info] On Behalf Of 
oldoaktree@xxxxxxxxx.net
Sent: 09 February 2021 13:16
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: RE: How long does an ancient woodland take to develop?

Thanks for all of your replies, illuminating and thought provoking.

I'm not in a position to say much on here, but as an Arb it is so 
sad to
see such wanton ignorance about these, to use a Chris Packham phrase, 
'Ecological Cathedrals'.
I'm just reading Bill Bryson's A Short History of Everything which I
thoroughly recommend and the extent of what we don’t know is a real 
take home factor from this very accessible book. Some of it is very 
funny too which always goes down well with me!
Indulge me a quote on fungi "gather together all the fungi in a 
typical
hectare of meadowland and you will have 2800 kilogrammes of the stuff.
These are not marginal organisms. - Altogether, about 70 thousand 
species have been identified but it is thought the total number could 
be as high as
1.8 million".
That book was wrote in 2003 so I wouldn't be surprised if those 
figures
are a lot higher now.
Cheers

Dave




-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info <
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> On Behalf Of Jon Heuch
Sent: 09 February 2021 12:34
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: Re: How long does an ancient woodland take to develop?

Dave



It's quite a challenge since it is a categorisation (I was told off 
once
by describing ASNW as a designation) so it cannot be recreated:


i)                    About 400 years

ii)                   You will need a time machine to enter the plot on
some
ancient maps to make sure that each subsequent map shows the area to 
be
wooded


However, If you are asking how long will it take for a bare patch of
land to develop into woodland with some good ecological features of 
course the best model is the Rothamsted fields that were left. 
Wildnerness was the word adopted then; now we might used the term 
re-wilding. They are very well documented 
http://www.era.rothamsted.ac.uk/index.php?area=home
<
http://www.era.rothamsted.ac.uk/index.php?area=home&page=index&datase
t=8>
&page=index&dataset=8. They have been around for 140 years so you 
may
have a lot of reading to do to work out what sort of time frame you 
want to consider.


Jon






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