UKTC Archive

Re: How long does an ancient woodland take to develop?

Subject: Re: How long does an ancient woodland take to develop?
From: Wayne Tyson
Date: Feb 26 2021 22:47:11
Jerry, thanks for the enlightenment! Just like here. The arrogance of
power.

Cheers,
W

On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 12:13 AM Jerry Ross <trees@xxxxxxxxxx.co.uk> wrote:

Wayne - I think you misunderstand. The promoters of HS2* have no
interest in the successful relocation of a soil microbiome - they are
merely indulging in an exercise in greenwash

(*No reason why you, in California, should be aware of HS2 but it's a
mjor infrastructure project to plough a new high speed (HS) rail track
tthrough the spine of England - see
https://www.wildlifetrusts.org/news/hs2-exorbitant-cost-nature )

On 25/02/2021 23:48, Wayne Tyson wrote:
I published on this in the January 1979 issue of *Landscape
architecture*.
A lot of water over the dam since.

It is important to essential that the "piles" don't compost. This is not
easy in your climate. I still don't have a handle on the details of the
soil microbiome, but getting that on a project that required storage for
a
time will be crucial. Make sure no part "goes anaerobic." There are more
than fungi involved that must survive in a dormant state or be allowed to
colonize rhizospheres and roots of living plants that permeate the stored
volume. Frequent monitoring is essential. First, the microbiome(s) should
be characterized, by genetics and as much identification by species and
percent population as possible. Reliable surrogate species that are
representative of the unique microbiome might be used to cut the workload
down as much as possible. An alternative that I plan to test if I ever
get
back to a project that fell "temporarily" to the pandemic.

This is the best I can do for now, but I'll try to be of further help if
you have questions.

WT

On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 1:54 PM Paul Barton <paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk>
wrote:

Ah, so that’s why the contractors for HS2 are scraping up piles of soil
to
relocate the ancient woodland to a new home.

So simple!

Kind regards,

Paul Barton
MSc, BSc (Hons), TechCert (ArborA), MArborA
Registered Consultant of the Arboricultural Association

Director | Barton Hyett Associates Ltd
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On 9 Feb 2021, at 14:33, Jim Quaife <jq@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk> wrote:

I'm sure that I've posted this before but in the 70s the FC excavated a
cubic metre (literally a cube) from a sitka plantation to count the
number
of organisms present, microscopic and otherwise.  They gave up at a
million.
AW is as much to do with the soil as trees and one cannot plant an AW,
but one can plant a woodland which has the potential to become one.
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info [mailto:
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info] On Behalf Of oldoaktree@xxxxxxxxx.net
Sent: 09 February 2021 13:16
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: RE: How long does an ancient woodland take to develop?

Thanks for all of your replies, illuminating and thought provoking.

I'm not in a position to say much on here, but as an Arb it is so sad
to
see such wanton ignorance about these, to use a Chris Packham phrase,
'Ecological Cathedrals'.
I'm just reading Bill Bryson's A Short History of Everything which I
thoroughly recommend and the extent of what we don’t know is a real take
home factor from this very accessible book. Some of it is very funny too
which always goes down well with me!
Indulge me a quote on fungi "gather together all the fungi in a typical
hectare of meadowland and you will have 2800 kilogrammes of the stuff.
These are not marginal organisms. - Altogether, about 70 thousand
species
have been identified but it is thought the total number could be as
high as
1.8 million".
That book was wrote in 2003 so I wouldn't be surprised if those figures
are a lot higher now.
Cheers

Dave




-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info <
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> On Behalf Of Jon Heuch
Sent: 09 February 2021 12:34
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: Re: How long does an ancient woodland take to develop?

Dave



It's quite a challenge since it is a categorisation (I was told off
once
by describing ASNW as a designation) so it cannot be recreated:


i)                    About 400 years

ii)                   You will need a time machine to enter the plot on
some
ancient maps to make sure that each subsequent map shows the area to be
wooded


However, If you are asking how long will it take for a bare patch of
land to develop into woodland with some good ecological features of
course
the best model is the Rothamsted fields that were left. Wildnerness was
the
word adopted then; now we might used the term re-wilding. They are very
well documented http://www.era.rothamsted.ac.uk/index.php?area=home
<

http://www.era.rothamsted.ac.uk/index.php?area=home&page=index&dataset=8>
&page=index&dataset=8. They have been around for 140 years so you may
have a lot of reading to do to work out what sort of time frame you
want to
consider.


Jon






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