UKTC Archive

RE: Outline planning approval

Subject: RE: Outline planning approval
From: admin
Date: Sep 09 2021 07:49:05
I agree entirely.  If the outline proposal establishes impacts to trees 
without the tree survey informing the design process, this is fundamental 
failing.  Appendix B recommends where the BS5837 process is required within 
the planning system.

I've literally just had an architect ask me to survey a site to establish 
what trees can be removed prior to application, then confirm what trees are 
impacted by the design.  My response was not to go down this route and I 
won't be either.

The comments about the FC and felling licence are interesting for larger 
development sites, particularly those on the urban fringe changing from 
agricultural / rural to developed status.  

Regards

Oliver Bennett  Prof Dip (RFS) M.Arbor.A
Arboricultural Consultant
Objective Tree Consultancy

Ph 01326 XXXXXX

Email: admin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk
Website: www.objectivetreeconsultancy.co.uk


                     




-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info <uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> 
On Behalf Of Jerry Ross
Sent: 08 September 2021 08:59
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: Re: Outline planning approval

" No TPP at outline or asking for a 5837 survey by condition are the usual 
failings of LPA's too."
Very true.
However a 5837 survey  "should be used to inform all design and planning 
decisions" , so for all except the most straightforward projects, one should 
have been carried out well before a proposal is submitted. 
Conditioning one post-approval may be too late.



On 08/09/2021 08:25, admin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk wrote:
Not if it’s a pre-commencement condition.

If the trees are covered by a planning condition and are removed breaching 
the condition, planning enforcement can require replacement.  The 
limitations of enforcement action for a breach of condition can be far more 
punitive in this scenario.  In my experience as a TO, a breach of condition 
has no limitations in terms of what you can reasonably ask for to remedy 
the breach, wich includes compensatory planting to mitigate the loss of 
trees.

Outline planning permission is a bit of a mine field, and I see detailed 
plans being approved specifically by condition, with reference to other 
matters which are to be addressed (at full application stage) but which 
impact on trees.  No TPP at outline or asking for a 5837 survey by 
condition are the usual failings of LPA's too.

I wouldn't advocate removing trees on an outline application being 
approved unless it is for ground surveys, mining investigations etc

Regards

Oliver Bennett  Prof Dip (RFS) M.Arbor.A Arboricultural Consultant 
Objective Tree Consultancy

Ph 01326 XXXXXX

Email: admin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk
Website: www.objectivetreeconsultancy.co.uk


                      




-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info 
<uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> On Behalf Of Jerry Ross
Sent: 07 September 2021 13:11
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: Re: Outline planning approval

Interesting.
So someone taking on a site with PP could start off by clearing all the 
trees that weren't protected by CA or TPO, without any penalty.


On 07/09/2021 12:51, Alastair Durkin wrote:
A condition only kicks in once a development has commenced/implemented. 
Otherwise it's as Bill says.

Alastair


-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info 
<uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> On Behalf Of Jerry Ross
Sent: 07 September 2021 12:24
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: Re: Outline planning approval

Surely they are protected by condition, irrespective of CA or TPO 
protection, at least until the planning app has been discharged. It's not 
very strong protection (what would an LPA do if the tree was to be 
removed?), but still...


On 07/09/2021 11:51, Bill Anderson wrote:
Are they protected except by the planning permission? If so I can't 
see that removing them is prohibited at all. If they're in a 
conservation area then I'd have thought the planning permission only 
permitted their removal when reserved matters and conditions had been 
discharged.
On Tue, 7 Sept 2021 at 10:51, Jerry Ross <trees@xxxxxxxxxx.co.uk> wrote:

So, the layout is indeed a reserved matter.
Which places the authority in a difficult position if the punter 
who has purchased the site interprets the condition (which clearly 
implies that trees shown as being removed *can* be removed) by 
cracking on getting rid of them.


On 07/09/2021 10:15, Alastair Durkin wrote:
Hi Jerry

I would say it depends whether layout was a reserved matter or not.
If
layout was reserved then the condition is fairly meaningless, and 
probably nobody checked the wording. If layout was part of the 
approval then you have your answer.
Alastair


-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info <
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info> On Behalf Of Jerry Ross
Sent: 07 September 2021 09:25
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: Outline planning approval

An 'indicative' layout plan is submitted for outline planning. It 
shows
a layout requiring the removal of a tree or trees. Outline consent 
is granted with a condition requiring that none of the existing 
trees or hedgerows on the site shall be removed 'other than those 
specifically shownto be removed on the approved drawings'
Bearing in mind this was an 'indicative' layoutsubmitted for 'outline'
consentdoes that mean that trees shown as requiring removal can be 
taken
out without further ado?
As it happens, a relatively minor redesign could enable them to be
retained As it also happens, the trees to be removed are ashes and 
both appear quite healthy.  Another ash, shown as /not/ requiring 
removal, has signs of early CAD (Chalara ash dieback)


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To unsubscribe send mailto:uktc-unsubscribe@xxxxxx.tree-care.info

The UKTC forum is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy and
Stockholm Tree Pits
https://www.stockholmtreepits.co.uk