UKTC Archive

Re: Ancient and veteran tree buffer zones in gardens?

Subject: Re: Ancient and veteran tree buffer zones in gardens?
From: Bill Anderson
Date: Dec 03 2021 18:22:16
It was a massive development on the outskirts of a city Wayne. Former
agricultural land so many years of ploughing too close, stock damage, etc.

On Thu, 2 Dec 2021 at 21:14, Wayne Tyson <wt750mv@xxxxxx.com> wrote:

The fence is a great idea. Especially with warning signs.

What caused the dead wood?

WT

On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 8:22 AM Bill Anderson <
anderson.arb.original@xxxxxx.com> wrote:

Simon,
I don't think you can fairly tar the private planning sector with that
particular brush. I recall as long ago as the early 90s telling a
developer
to retain a veteran tree, stick a fence round it, only to have the
Council
Landscape Artichoke demand that the dead wood was removed!

Bill.

On Wed, 1 Dec 2021 at 21:58, Wayne Tyson <wt750mv@xxxxxx.com> wrote:

Ok. What was it based on?

WT

On Wed, Dec 1, 2021 at 5:59 AM Jim Quaife <jq@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.co.uk>
wrote:

The notion of the Tree Protection Distance for the 1991 BS5837 (there
wasn't one as such for the 1980 BS) arose from observation - nothing
scientific.
The subsequent adoption of the 12 times multiplier was just a close
fit.
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info [mailto:
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info] On Behalf Of Mark Hinsley
Sent: 01 December 2021 13:54
To: UK Tree Care
Subject: RE: Ancient and veteran tree buffer zones in gardens?

Hi Wayne

The 15m is based on the maximum root protection zone under our
BS583:2012.
BS5837:2012 Root protection zones are based on work done. I believe,
in
the
University of South Carolina where they wanted to produce an easy to
remember 'rule of thumb' for developers regarding how much space they
should give retained trees on building sites. Because you still use
the
Imperial system of measurements an easy to remember ratio was I foot
radius
of zone for every 1 inch diameter of trunk. We, for reasons known
only
to
those who sat on the committee, decided to slavishly copy it. So we
end
up
with root protection zones being radius 12 x the trunk diameter at
breast
height up to a maximum of 15m.

It is about as scientific as Star Trek

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info <
uktc-request@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
On Behalf Of Bill Anderson
Sent: 01 December 2021 13:33
To: UK Tree Care <uktc@xxxxxx.tree-care.info>
Subject: Re: Ancient and veteran tree buffer zones in gardens?

It's a best guess Wayne, widely accepted as reasonable. Based
entirely
on
the idea that the roots reach as far as the branches. We all know
that's
rubbish but in the absence of anything else....

On Wed, 1 Dec 2021 at 03:38, Wayne Tyson <wt750mv@xxxxxx.com> wrote:

Is the fifteen meters derived from disciplined (scientific) data or
is
it arbitrary?

WT

On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 10:16 AM Jon Heuch <jh@xxxxxxxx.co.uk>
wrote:

Simon



If a 15 metre buffer is automatic (no quibbling) then every local
plan needs to show all ancient woodland with a 15 metre buffer
and
a
clear message
to
land owners: your land is now worthless. Secondly, government
needs
to be clear as to what happens with all those developments now
within that 15 metre buffer zone. Are they just to be left in
aspic,
to rot away?
Clearly,
such a dogmatic approach might not get full support.



The reason I quoted from the guidance is because it is much more
pragmatic
than dogmatic at defining the reason why a buffer zone is
required
-
roots
-
and everything points towards the fact that it is the impact on
the
ancient
woodland itself that is to be avoided (roots in particular) not
something more nebulous that may be impacted outwith of the AW
itself. BS5837 is referred to in several locations and the 15
metres
clearly comes from it; people may get excited about the fact that
roots of trees may stretch further than 15 metres but at some
point
a compromise needs to be
reached.
That is currently defined as 15 metres.



Jon






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The UKTC forum is supported by Bosky Trees arboricultural consultancy and
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